The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Travers is the guy .... he has some quotes here about 'assault rifles':

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-be ... 20227.html

More:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... csp=34news

The NRA wouldn't like it if Obama nominated Dick Armey to head the ATF. Obama could stand on street corners handing out free LCP's with ammo to everybody who passed by, and the NRA would still be against Obama.

Ogre wrote:The NRA wouldn't like it if Obama nominated Dick Armey to head the ATF. Obama could stand on street corners handing out free LCP's with ammo to everybody who passed by, and the NRA would still be against Obama.

Cause you know he would then just outlaw small .380 caliber pistols and then that would make everyone who took one a criminal That would achieve his SOCIALIST goals of disarming everyone that would oppose him! *Dons tinfoil hat*

The ATF's Gun Center tracks the worst areas for assault-type weapons. A map shows identifies neighborhoods on the city's south side with especially troubling statistics.

Traver says the power and randomness of the heavy caliber, military-style weapons make them so dangerous not only to people, but to police. They're so powerful, body armor can't withstand a hit, and they're so difficult to control, their bullets often get sprayed beyond the intended targets, striking innocent victims even when they’re in their own homes.

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-be ... z1C0OAIhEg

"...and they're in the wrong hands."

I think that pretty well sums it up. Can you smell the racist/classist bullshit? I can't say that I think this guy is right for the job either.

This really bugs my. If you have to lie to get what you want, maybe it's time to reevaluate.

Traver was first nominated in November, but the Senate Judiciary Committee failed to act on the nomination.

At that time, Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, said a 2007 report by the police chiefs group, "generated with Traver's help, called on Congress to ban thousands of commonly owned firearms by misrepresenting them as assault weapons."

Cox took issue with Traver's appearance in a 2009 TV news report in Chicago in which he referred to gang members who favor military-type weapons. "Pull the trigger, and you can mow people down," Traver said.

Cox said the fully automatic weapons shown being fired in the TV report falsely implied the firearms are widely available to gang members. "Traver knows that fully automatic firearms are not available through normal retail channels," Cox said.

AmirMortal wrote:This really bugs my. If you have to lie to get what you want, maybe it's time to reevaluate.

Traver was first nominated in November, but the Senate Judiciary Committee failed to act on the nomination.

At that time, Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, said a 2007 report by the police chiefs group, "generated with Traver's help, called on Congress to ban thousands of commonly owned firearms by misrepresenting them as assault weapons."

Cox took issue with Traver's appearance in a 2009 TV news report in Chicago in which he referred to gang members who favor military-type weapons. "Pull the trigger, and you can mow people down," Traver said.

Cox said the fully automatic weapons shown being fired in the TV report falsely implied the firearms are widely available to gang members. "Traver knows that fully automatic firearms are not available through normal retail channels," Cox said.

But we have to be careful here, the NRA says:

1. A news report had a quote from Traver and video of some fully auto weapons. Has anyone here ever been interviewed for a tv news show? I know several people that have and they have almost universally been misquoted and their ideas misrepresented. Remember the 'bacteria that eat arsenic' deal? My wife was interviewed for an hour, they had her voice on for 10 seconds as they showed someone else doing something that had nothing to do with what she was talking about. A TV news station used sensational footage as a background for an interview about guns. How is this his fault?

2. A report from the police chiefs was 'generated with Traver's help' itemized items to be banned that were improperly labeled as 'assault weapons'. First, what is an 'assault weapon'? Its a vague term that isn't helpful. Lets just say they identified things they thought should be banned from public ownership. What were those things? I have no idea. I am guessing that if it isn't fully auto, it doesn't fit the NRA definition of assault weapon. Secondly, the report was made with his help. What does that mean? Is he listed as a consultant? Is he the guy that made the recommendation? We have no idea.


My point is..... #1 isn't his fault. Local TV news sucks and its unlikely he did anything more than get interviewed.
#2 may have merit but its totally without context. Unless we know what things they wanted banned and why, and how much he actually had to do with the suggested ban, we can lay that at his feet.

Amir, if a play you work on fails should we blame you? It *was* made 'with your help'. It all depends, right? If it was because the rigging failed then yes. If its because the actors couldn't act, that is hardly your fault.

So, someone go find that report and report back so we can figure out what is going on

MetalSlugIV wrote:Cause you know he would then just outlaw small .380 caliber pistols and then that would make everyone who took one a criminal That would achieve his SOCIALIST goals of disarming everyone that would oppose him! *Dons tinfoil hat*

I've seen that line of logic before, and it would have been funny if the Tea Baggin' redneck that spouted it was joking - but he wasn't.

I don't get too consumed by politics, because it all comes and goes. I don't know if this Tarver guy is the right guy, and Obama might not either - he may simply perceive a need to placate some group or another and a guy from Chicago's ATF office might seem like a good move all around. Tarver can spew all the crap he wants, assuming he actually spewed the crap attributed to him, but trying to use a governmental agency to assail a basic Constitutional right has not worked out too well in the past. Perhaps he might be able to implement some really annoying restrictions on magazine capacity or something, but he won't be able to implement anything really meaningful. A Republican controlled House will really keep him in check, so I don't think he's really going to amount to anything worse than a barking little Pekipoo dog (worse case scenario).

In the end, however, it doesn't matter who Obama nominates because the NRA will oppose it just 'cuz Obama is for it, and the black-helicopter-fearing-tinfoil-hat-wearing-hill-billies will concoct some paranoiac conspiracy theory about United Nations cross-dressing Islamo-facist-terrorists using Obama to usurp our biblical right to pack assault rifles... or something.

Yes, context is very important. It would be nice if the entire interviews were available to the public and easily accessible, but the nature of our news media here in the US is not such that news is presented clearly, objectively, or always even truthfully, so much of the pertinent information simply disappears.

Regardless of their leadership, the AFT still needs to be reigned in by congress and maybe the SCOTUS, their parameters more clearly defined, and checks and balances need to be in place. You cannot have one entity be the judge, jury and executioner in a free society. Unfortunately, that is what the ATF is set up to be currently. This really needs to be addressed immediately, before a new director is placed in the bureau, particularly if that director proves to have strong inclinations one way or the other. For that matter, I really think that we need to look at not just how this organization regulates and enforces, but what they regulate and enforce. I know that I am in the minority here as far as what weapons should be allowed to civilians, but that doesn't change the unconstitutionality of some of the current regulations. There needs to be a serious reassessment of the NFA laws, GCA, GOPA, etc. in modern legal context. I don't think by any means that all of it should be scrapped, but there is definitely some real room for improvement.

Not surprised that Obama hit a brick wall with Travers, looks like W didn't have better luck with his nominee. I'm very suspicious of any group (secular or religious) that has a veto over appointments, government actions or policies. NRA may be trying to get back to the center with their endorsement of some Demo candidates, but it could eventually cost them far right wing members. They created this whole "with us or against us" climate and their wackos have become the most vocal. I hope it eventually blows up on the NRA.

I agree about interviews and the media. I worked at a place that had a major fire and some deaths. The stories in the newspapers especially had little to do with fact, mostly hearsay, rumors, innuendo, misquotes etc. I got a different perspective on print media.