The Liberal Gun Club Forum

senorgrand wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm some people are more equal than others...

max129 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 pm My Mother was a school teacher. My Father was career Army and retired as a CWO-3 (not high ranking). My family was basically 'educated working class'. Other people had fancy boats; we had a canoe. ;-) I grew up around privileged children of wealthy people. But I managed to get into a very good College based on test scores (extra-curricular activities did not count for much in 1970 College admissions.)

This story has caused me to be extremely offended. Perhaps I am naive.

How can you run a MERITOCRACY without the merit? I just don't get it.

And the favoritism MUST go far beyond admissions. At my College, you needed those high SAT scores to be real or you would be flunked out. A full 20% of my Freshman class never made it past the Sophomore year because their grades were too low.

max129 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 pm My Mother was a school teacher. My Father was career Army and retired as a CWO-3 (not high ranking). My family was basically 'educated working class'. Other people had fancy boats; we had a canoe. ;-) I grew up around privileged children of wealthy people. But I managed to get into a very good College based on test scores (extra-curricular activities did not count for much in 1970 College admissions.)

This story has caused me to be extremely offended. Perhaps I am naive.

How can you run a MERITOCRACY without the merit? I just don't get it.

And the favoritism MUST go far beyond admissions. At my College, you needed those high SAT scores to be real or you would be flunked out. A full 20% of my Freshman class never made it past the Sophomore year because their grades were too low.

K9s wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:39 pm

max129 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 pm My Mother was a school teacher. My Father was career Army and retired as a CWO-3 (not high ranking). My family was basically 'educated working class'. Other people had fancy boats; we had a canoe. ;-) I grew up around privileged children of wealthy people. But I managed to get into a very good College based on test scores (extra-curricular activities did not count for much in 1970 College admissions.)

This story has caused me to be extremely offended. Perhaps I am naive.

How can you run a MERITOCRACY without the merit? I just don't get it.

And the favoritism MUST go far beyond admissions. At my College, you needed those high SAT scores to be real or you would be flunked out. A full 20% of my Freshman class never made it past the Sophomore year because their grades were too low.

This story burned me up. I got into one of those schools on a scholarship because I couldn't have ever afforded it. Yesterday, after hearing this story, I realized how lucky I really was to navigate my self in. I had great test scores despite never having an ACT or SAT class or tutor. We were "rural" poor which is a special kind of poor. Being around a lot of kids who (somehow) got in, I became very aware of how poor my family really was.

When I heard people discussing this and wondering how these kids ever graduated, I already knew the answer. The sororities and fraternities in that school had doctor notepads for excuses, test copies/brain dumps, and help with fake papers. Everyone knew it, but professors couldn't "prove" it back then. Some professors didn't care, but most knew they couldn't defeat the "system" - but they tried.

I wonder why some of these folks got caught, but the most powerful never get caught.

F. Scott Fitzgerald:

“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different. ”

TrueTexan wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:05 am

K9s wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:39 pm

max129 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 pm My Mother was a school teacher. My Father was career Army and retired as a CWO-3 (not high ranking). My family was basically 'educated working class'. Other people had fancy boats; we had a canoe. ;-) I grew up around privileged children of wealthy people. But I managed to get into a very good College based on test scores (extra-curricular activities did not count for much in 1970 College admissions.)

This story has caused me to be extremely offended. Perhaps I am naive.

How can you run a MERITOCRACY without the merit? I just don't get it.

And the favoritism MUST go far beyond admissions. At my College, you needed those high SAT scores to be real or you would be flunked out. A full 20% of my Freshman class never made it past the Sophomore year because their grades were too low.

This story burned me up. I got into one of those schools on a scholarship because I couldn't have ever afforded it. Yesterday, after hearing this story, I realized how lucky I really was to navigate my self in. I had great test scores despite never having an ACT or SAT class or tutor. We were "rural" poor which is a special kind of poor. Being around a lot of kids who (somehow) got in, I became very aware of how poor my family really was.

When I heard people discussing this and wondering how these kids ever graduated, I already knew the answer. The sororities and fraternities in that school had doctor notepads for excuses, test copies/brain dumps, and help with fake papers. Everyone knew it, but professors couldn't "prove" it back then. Some professors didn't care, but most knew they couldn't defeat the "system" - but they tried.

I wonder why some of these folks got caught, but the most powerful never get caught.

The ones that got caught aren't the very established rich. They aren't the ones invited to join the likes of Skull & Bones or other old line clubs Frats or Sororities. Those kids don't need to cheat to get accepted. They already have an acceptance letter since they were born.

It's no secret that wealth brings advantages when it comes to sending your kids to college. Rich and famous parents can donate large sums of money to schools or lean on their names and connections. Some ritzy colleges explicitly prefer the children and grandchildren of alumni — at Harvard University, an investigation found last year that these "legacy" admits were over five times more likely to get in than the average Joe.

Bisbee wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:03 pm Meritocracy... a story to keep the society in line while the rich skip in the side door.

No, it is not complete fiction as much as it is a mythology. But this story loses credibility with each reporting of its corruption.

dougb wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm Some of these prestigious colleges are private schools. Unless they get endowments, most could not afford to attend. A couple of million dollar bribe to the endowment fund lets a few poorer types attend. Of course, some of the public schools are just as expensive now and also depend on endowments for scholarship funding. And football revenue.

dougb wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm Some of these prestigious colleges are private schools. Unless they get endowments, most could not afford to attend. A couple of million dollar bribe to the endowment fund lets a few poorer types attend. Of course, some of the public schools are just as expensive now and also depend on endowments for scholarship funding. And football revenue.

K9s wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:26 pm It's been this way for a long, long time. The aristocracy/oligarchy has the money and resources to win almost every time. I heard that 1 in 6 "elite" college students are "legacy" admissions and that 1% kids are nearly 80 times more likely to get into those colleges. They are NOT 70-80 times more qualified, though. Even with their advantages, they are not often that much more qualified.

My dad used to complain about the very same things we talk about. Reagan was busting unions. In the 70s, people harkened back to a mythical time when "people worked for life in a company that took care of them" which is something I heard people talking about last week. Did that ever happen??

I don't think it was ever "good" for the bulk of people. America was never so "great" for most people. The myths we have all heard and wanted to believe are just BS. I don't know that it will ever change in my lifetime. *sigh*