There are some dogs that make the crowd at the 143rd Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show go wild: golden retrievers, Labradors, dachshunds and bulldogs. But they almost never win Best in Show.

“If you had a popularity contest, we would win,” said Christine Miele, the Eastern vice president of the Golden Retriever Club of America. “We have everything in the world going for us except Westminster, but I think we’re O.K. with that.”

The top five most popular breeds in terms of ownership in 2017 were, in order, Labradors, German shepherds, golden retrievers, French bulldogs and bulldogs, according to the American Kennel Club.

But no Labrador, golden retriever or French bulldog has ever won Best in Show. German shepherds won in 2017 and 1987. And long ago, bulldogs won here, too — in 1913 and 1955. Since then, they have suffered a dry spell that has lasted for centuries (in dog years).

“When the bulldog comes out, everybody always cheers,” said Llely Toledo, who was competing at Madison Square Garden in Manhattan on Monday with April, a 2-year-old bulldog. “They’re competitive for their class, but it’s hard because the other breeds really stand out, too.”

Other popular breeds, like dachshunds, also tend to fare poorly here each year. Carlos Puig, a longtime dachshund handler whose 7-year-old longhaired dachshund, Burns, won best hound on Monday, attributed that in part to the breed’s tiny stature.

“In a ring like this, they have to be as flashy and fancy as some of the fancier hounds — like Afghans or greyhounds — but its hard because they’re the shortest and smallest in their group,” said Mr. Puig, 57. “They kind of get lost because of their size.”

Burns, who will be a contender for Best in Show on Tuesday, is the top-winning longhaired dachshund in history, with 26 Best in Show titles, Mr. Puig said. But he has never won the Westminster Dog Show.

Walter Jones, a vice president of the Dachshund Club of America, said that no dachshund had ever won Best in Show at Westminster.

“I think one of the reasons some breeds don’t make it to the end is that they just aren’t the glamour breeds who are so flashy in the group,” he said. “Dachshunds compete against many larger breeds in the hound group that are simply more impressive.”

For a dog to win Best in Show, he or she first has to win Best in Breed and then win Best in Group, as Burns did on Monday night when he was judged best hound. On Tuesday, all the winners of Best in Group will then compete against one another for Best in Show.

“It’s a hard win,” Ms. Miele said. “It won’t be a golden retriever. It’s not going to happen.”

For some breeds, their popularity and their losing streak may go hand in hand. Ms. Miele said there are so many golden retrievers in America that it is hard for any one of them to establish dominance on the dog show circuit.

“Judges are not seeing the same golden in the state of Washington as they are in New York or Connecticut,” she said. “They’re seeing very different dogs and very different styles of dogs.”

And because the breed’s gene pool is so large, there are many slightly different ways for a golden retriever to look: Some have coats that are long and flowing, others less so; some have fur that is a deep golden, while others are more cream-colored.

That can make it complicated to establish a breed standard, which is used by dog show judges.

“We don’t have one sense of, ‘This is the perfect golden retriever,’” she said. “We have, ‘This is one wonderful golden retriever and this is another wonderful golden retriever.’ We have many candidates that fit our breed standard.”

Part of it may have to do with the judges as well. Of the small number of people in the country who are qualified to serve as Best in Show judges, none are golden retriever breeders, Ms. Miele said.

Experts in other breeds expressed similar concerns. Patricia Ropp, the vice president of the Bulldog Club of America and a licensed bulldog judge, said in an email that she did not think judges were “prejudiced to certain breeds.” But she said that they “have different breed backgrounds and experiences that can affect the outcome.”

At Madison Square Garden, the dachshund handlers agreed.

“This show is all about getting lucky with your judge lineup,” said Madeline Peterson, whose 2-year-old wire-haired dachshund, Winston, drew a wave of cheers from the crowd on Monday.

If the judges don’t have experience with dachshunds, she said, they can be overshadowed by their long-legged competition.

“You know,” she said, “they’re just little dogs in a big-dog group.”

YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:13 pm I don't buy it. Corgis have frequently won the Herding Group and what can they herd? Ducks? Groundhogs? English Royals?
Since the 21st Century began, not too many of the little yappy frou-frou dogs have won BIS, but they used to. Beagles, GSDs, Fox Terriers, and Springer Spaniels seem to be the most common winners. We were just watching the Herding Group being Belgian Sheepdog people...half-a dozen Tervuren, 2 Sheepdogs (BSD for short), but no Malinois or Laekenois. Our current girl is a 12 1/2 year old Belgian Tervuren. I couldn't understand how the Malinois in the group was BiB but I didn't see the other entries. Both the BSD and the Terv were gorgeous. Still, the Bouvier des Flandres was really the pick for Herding Group winner, but the Border Collie who was 2nd shouldn't have been. The Beauceron should have had 2nd.

But, it's all subjective and BiB is as political as the Oscars or Grammys.

joemac wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:52 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:13 pm I don't buy it. Corgis have frequently won the Herding Group and what can they herd? Ducks? Groundhogs? English Royals?
Since the 21st Century began, not too many of the little yappy frou-frou dogs have won BIS, but they used to. Beagles, GSDs, Fox Terriers, and Springer Spaniels seem to be the most common winners. We were just watching the Herding Group being Belgian Sheepdog people...half-a dozen Tervuren, 2 Sheepdogs (BSD for short), but no Malinois or Laekenois. Our current girl is a 12 1/2 year old Belgian Tervuren. I couldn't understand how the Malinois in the group was BiB but I didn't see the other entries. Both the BSD and the Terv were gorgeous. Still, the Bouvier des Flandres was really the pick for Herding Group winner, but the Border Collie who was 2nd shouldn't have been. The Beauceron should have had 2nd.

But, it's all subjective and BiB is as political as the Oscars or Grammys.

My favorite breed, Westminster or not:

Henri is on the left and Louis is on the right. Henri is 2 and Louis is 7 months (and already outweighs Henri by 6 pounds).

Mason wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:57 pm How is this crap not sillier than the Grammy’s, Emmies, etc?

A day after earning a coveted spot in the final ring of seven at the Westminster Kennel Club, Colton the schipperke was ruled ineligible for best in show Tuesday night.

There was a conflict of interest — top judge Peter Green’s longtime partner has co-owned dogs with one of Colton’s co-owners, including 2013 Westminster champion Banana Joe the affenpinscher.

Spirited and compact, Colton was going to be allowed to walk on to the green carpet at Madison Square Garden when the finalists are announced. Judge Peter Green was then to excuse Colton from the ring, leaving only six contenders for the big prize.

Never before at Westminster had a schipperke taken the highly competitive nonsporting group, which includes poodles and bichon frises.

“A schipperke may never, never win this group again,” Cook said. “And we did it.”

Cook said Colton’s team was told earlier in the day that he was ineligible.

“These types of things happen at dog shows and the rules are such to maintain the integrity of the sport,” the American Kennel Club said in a statement.

Two dogs were excused from the ring in the sporting group competition hours later. The clumber spaniel and Welsh springer spaniel were eliminated because the judge was a breeder of both dogs.

YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:13 pm I don't buy it. Corgis have frequently won the Herding Group and what can they herd? Ducks? Groundhogs? English Royals?

khlavkalash wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:17 am Needs to be a working dog show where dachshunds compete to drag badgers out of their holes and straight out shake them to death on live TV.

khlavkalash wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:17 am Needs to be a working dog show where dachshunds compete to drag badgers out of their holes and straight out shake them to death on live TV.

featureless wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:51 am

khlavkalash wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:17 am Needs to be a working dog show where dachshunds compete to drag badgers out of their holes and straight out shake them to death on live TV.

One set of my parents got some little terrier critter that looked all cute thinking it was going to be a lap dog. ALL that little dog goes is destroy mice and rats at the hay pile. Don't believe it's ever sat on a lap, ribbons in it's hair or not.

YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:57 am I always figure that a dog you have to put on a table to be judged is hardly a real dog at all.
And there's no reason a 60 or 80 # dog can't be a lapdog (at least part of them).

But if you're going to be a little frou-frou dog, you can at least ACT like a real dog, not a yappy, spoiled, nip-at-everyone, shit-on-the-carpet, little POS.

YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:57 am I always figure that a dog you have to put on a table to be judged is hardly a real dog at all.
And there's no reason a 60 or 80 # dog can't be a lapdog (at least part of them).

But if you're going to be a little frou-frou dog, you can at least ACT like a real dog, not a yappy, spoiled, nip-at-everyone, shit-on-the-carpet, little POS.

featureless wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am

YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:57 am I always figure that a dog you have to put on a table to be judged is hardly a real dog at all.
And there's no reason a 60 or 80 # dog can't be a lapdog (at least part of them).

But if you're going to be a little frou-frou dog, you can at least ACT like a real dog, not a yappy, spoiled, nip-at-everyone, shit-on-the-carpet, little POS.

That's pretty much how I felt about small dogs. Then I ended up with one. Promised the kid for years she'd be able to have a dog when she turned 10. While pound scrounging, we were looking for a 20-40 pound range. Then we stumbled across all 11 pounds of our big dog in a little dog's body. She's the sweetest dog I've ever known. Not sure what mix she is, but looks to have some mini pin in her (coloring for sure) but her feet are definitely terrier. Here's our fake dog in front of her fake fire with our departed kitty.
20171201_193755.jpg

K9s wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:33 am That is a diminutive wolf.

featureless wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am

YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:57 am I always figure that a dog you have to put on a table to be judged is hardly a real dog at all.
And there's no reason a 60 or 80 # dog can't be a lapdog (at least part of them).

But if you're going to be a little frou-frou dog, you can at least ACT like a real dog, not a yappy, spoiled, nip-at-everyone, shit-on-the-carpet, little POS.

That's pretty much how I felt about small dogs. Then I ended up with one. Promised the kid for years she'd be able to have a dog when she turned 10. While pound scrounging, we were looking for a 20-40 pound range. Then we stumbled across all 11 pounds of our big dog in a little dog's body. She's the sweetest dog I've ever known. Not sure what mix she is, but looks to have some mini pin in her (coloring for sure) but her feet are definitely terrier. Here's our fake dog in front of her fake fire with our departed kitty.
20171201_193755.jpg