The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I know I will never have to shoot someone--god forbid!--and the stats show it to be a good "know" for me. Yet I practice at different distances, and I practice quick second shots and so on when I go to the ranges. If I have to, I can and I will shoot. It just appears I'll never have to make the decision.

Nevertheless, I feel good owning guns. In fact, these good feels increased after the purchase of my Springer 1911. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45561 It's not even my personal defense hand gun, which is my .357 GP100 due to the better downrange energies delivered.

Maybe it's the heavy box of 50 rounds of .45ACP. Maybe it's the Sgt. Rock comics--budda budda. Maybe it's the hard boiled detective novels I read back in the day where they all had these .45's. Maybe it's the diminished stats on wounding using .45's. Maybe Vic Morrow in Combat! (no bayo exclamation point to find). Hard to say just where the feels originated

I thought I'd ask the larger community about your-all's feeling about gun ownership and whether they've changed over the last couple years?

What say you?

CDFingers

I carry every day when I am home in Nevada. I also carried every day in the late 1970s when I Iived in Alaska.

I really notice it when I fly to California and need to leave my firearms at home. This is a strange feeling because many parts of the Bay Area are more dangerous than where I live in Nevada.

I have grown very comfortable with my firearms in the past 2 years. I notice I am still hyper-cautious when I holster and unholster. I watch the videos of people who holster and unholster their striker fired 9mm without looking - saying it is an important drill. I will never get there. I am just too paranoid that some random piece of my shirt could catch the trigger if I don't look for it every time.

(I know this will get me flames ;-)

I love my 9mm Sig P320s (I have the Compact and Sub Compact.) I am not certain I could carry them full time with one in the chamber. Why? No positive safety. After handling and shooting my P320s I understand why the military opted for a version with a positive safety. I am also aware that such positive safeties are now out of fashion. I will likely never part with my P320s, but they have a (delightful) light and crisp trigger. A lot of fun on the range, and not quite as accident proof as I would prefer.

For those who disagree with my opinion on positive safeties - I know the flip side of the argument (one less thing to train for in emergencies.) But I am 100% a civilian now. Not only can I not train as much as a policeman, I lack the legal coverage. I also lack any willingness to ever accidentally harm someone who did not deserve it. So for me, I have decided to buy no more semi-autos that lack a positive safety. (Person preference)

Agreed that the likelihood of ever having to use a gun on a fellow human being is remote, at best. Unless out for shooting or tinkering, my guns are always stored unloaded behind locked steel. The county where I live does not issue CCW permits to ordinary citizens, so the only times I've carried have been out of state under a nonresident permit. I resent that I cannot make the choice myself. There have been occasions where I've wished I'd been armed away from home, but they were just feels, temporary, impermanent and inconsequential, like the snowflake I am.

There have been three occasions in my life where a gun has made its way to the nightstand for the evening. While nothing happened inside my home, I was glad for its presence as chaos erupted outside.

Like you, I feel that shooting is fun. I also recognize they have a purpose, should the need ever arise.

Max I hear you on the carry and the safety issue. I rarely carry, but when I do it is ether a revolver or my Sig P-227 which has the decocker. It is a double action on first shot the then single. So it is safe to carry with hammer down. Works like my revolvers point and squeeze the trigger. No worry about safeties or striker fired weapons going off at the minor touch of the trigger.

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 am Agreed that the likelihood of ever having to use a gun on a fellow human being is remote, at best. Unless out for shooting or tinkering, my guns are always stored unloaded behind locked steel. The county where I live does not issue CCW permits to ordinary citizens, so the only times I've carried have been out of state under a nonresident permit. I resent that I cannot make the choice myself. There have been occasions where I've wished I'd been armed away from home, but they were just feels, temporary, impermanent and inconsequential, like the snowflake I am.

There have been three occasions in my life where a gun has made its way to the nightstand for the evening. While nothing happened inside my home, I was glad for its presence as chaos erupted outside.

Like you, I feel that shooting is fun. I also recognize they have a purpose, should the need ever arise.

I keep mine the same, unloaded and locked. So far I’ve never taken one out and loaded it due to a potential threat. I did think about it briefly this past New Year’s morning. I was pretty sure I was simply dealing with a drunk and not a burglar or home invader. Still after the threat was over and I was waiting for the police my wife asked why I hadn’t brought her a gun. I simply said because it was a drunk and I was armed with an extremely heavy flashlight. Waiting for the police did make me think that perhaps my readiness state should be improved a bit. I understand it was New Years, but it took an hour for the police to show up. The drunk spent almost 30 minutes total trying to come through my door. Since the door is practically all glass a burglar or home invader would break it in seconds. I may never experience an actual case where I need to get a loaded gun out, but perhaps I should work on my accessibility and readiness. Just thinking. My wife’s inquiry made me think on it more. She has previously mentioned we should perhaps have a loaded gun in the house. It was by her original request years ago that I have not. She’s apparently changed her mind.

I own 10 handguns 2 shotguns and 6 rifles. Also 2 muzzle loaders. There is only one that is not geared for hunting because the barrel is too short. Since I have given up hunting I'm a little indifferent towards my collection. I haven't considered self defense a reason since 1976 when I made the move from the Twin Cities to north eastern Mn.

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:40 pm I keep mine the same, unloaded and locked.
...snip...
I may never experience an actual case where I need to get a loaded gun out, but perhaps I should work on my accessibility and readiness. Just thinking. My wife’s inquiry made me think on it more. She has previously mentioned we should perhaps have a loaded gun in the house. It was by her original request years ago that I have not. She’s apparently changed her mind.

A couple of years ago, I added one of these (little one in the middle of the photo) to the bedroom. Drilled a couple of holes through it and lag bolted into the corner wall studs. It's most definitely screwdriver proof (unlike most handgun "safes" I've looked at) but a crowbar would rip it out of the studs if one was inclined to destroy the wall. Home alarm cuts down on time to locate said crowbar. It's a compromise on theft proof but puts a handgun in the location I'm most likely to need it in the wee hours.

sikacz said:

She has previously mentioned we should perhaps have a loaded gun in the house. It was by her original request years ago that I have not. She’s apparently changed her mind.

My wife is very "anti" on firearms. She had a very nasty childhood experience with guns - her concerns are quite rational.

And several years ago, she was not thrilled when I got my Nevada CCW and started to carry most of the time.

In the past year, she has changed her mind a bit. On two occasions where she felt things were dodgy, she asked me if I was carrying. In general, we both avoid trouble, but there a places in any city where you can feel pretty nervous. About 6 months ago, we were confronted by a very belligerent drunk who wanted money. I scooted my wife behind me and told the guy to back off and go away. He got the message. At no time did I put my hand on my concealed firearm or intimate that I was armed.

This caused a very long discussion between and my wife about when I feel I can draw and shoot a person. I explained that as a former military member who had spent 14 months in a life combat zone I have had many many hours of classroom and field training in "the rules of engagement" and the rules map perfectly to my civilian world. She watched a couple of the "legal use of firearms" videos that came with my firearm insurance policy.

In the end, she learned that there is not a casual right to draw a firearm. Simply drawing a firearm without proper cause is a serious crime (brandishing). Verbally notifying that one is armed has been classified as "brandishing" in some States (wrongly IMO, but Prosecutors vary in their concern for a reasonable approach to gun ownership.)

Now, when one is in their own home, the rules change. If the drunk actually comes through the door using any force, they have given up 95% of their rights. Like others on this thread, I have a strong desire to -never- shoot anyone. But reading the news informs me it could happen.

Also, in the case of my wife, we went through the beginnings of firearm training. She did not like it. And we both concluded that even in a deadly confrontation, she is never going to pull the trigger. The realization reduced a lot of stressing my house. She wants me to be armed and she wants to not be armed.

I keep a loaded firearm in the house, but it is in a safe.

As for your glass door - I propose that that may not be a great idea. Think of all this as a 'wake up call'. I personally dislike the security options for stand alone houses. I don't want to be too paranoid, but I want the person outside to have to work really hard to get inside - and I want it to be noisy and slow to break into the house.

Bear Spray is a good alternative for those who can/won't/wouldn't use a handgun. The Frontiersman brand has 2% capsaicin, which is the maximum allowed by current EPA standards. Non-lethal and if it'll make an enraged bear think twice, the local drunkard or thief will seriously re-evaluate their current life decisions. Granted, not as good as 124gr. hollow points, but better than a sharp stick.

I think our glass/wood door is to stay. I have contemplated changing it to an impact resistant glass or bullet resistant. This is only the second time in over twenty years we’ve had a potential danger behind our front door. I will be re-evaluating though. Those small handgun safes might be a good start for a single handgun. This was a rare case for us and the nature of the night was partly the reason it occurred. I have a Texas carry license which rarely gets used. My work takes me to places where handguns are not welcome. So the home is my only place I can take precautionary steps. Texas law is pretty clear on home break-ins. Still I have no desire to shoot anyone ever unless I absolutely have to.

atxgunguy wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:45 pm Bear Spray is a good alternative for those who can/won't/wouldn't use a handgun. The Frontiersman brand has 2% capsaicin, which is the maximum allowed by current EPA standards. Non-lethal and if it'll make an enraged bear think twice, the local drunkard or thief will seriously re-evaluate their current life decisions. Granted, not as good as 124gr. hollow points, but better than a sharp stick.

Where does one buy bear-spray and how long does it remain good?

I've never shot anyone, but I did have to pull a gun on someone one time, so for me I can say that I "know" the chance of me having to shoot someone is very real, however small it may be. I'm OK with that. I certainly don't want to shoot anyone, but I'm confident that I could if I had too. And I do carry, though not very conveniently: the gun is in a holster with a snap closure, and that's in a closed zippered pocket of my purse. On the one hand that's not very good in an emergency, but on the other hand, I suppose it's a deterrent to any temptation to brandish without a good reason. If I get in a really dangerous situation I guess I need to run away first, and only get out the gun when I can do so safely. It's a compromise, but I "feel" better having the gun than not having it. In the house I keep everything locked up, except for the gun in my purse.

Bear Spray:

https://www.amazon.com/d/Camping-Bear-P ... bear+spray

There are likely State level restrictions on shipping.

This stuff is like any canned spray. If you see no leaks, it is probably still good.

Here is what we did in the military for spray cans. Weigh them on a fine grained scale - write the weight.

Re-weigh every year. If they don't weigh the same, they have lost their gas. Replace those.

Don't believe it works? Take two cans of compressed air and weigh them, then discharge one. There is a remarkable weight difference.

max129 wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:07 pm Bear Spray:

https://www.amazon.com/d/Camping-Bear-P ... bear+spray

There are likely State level restrictions on shipping.

This stuff is like any canned spray. If you see no leaks, it is probably still good.

Here is what we did in the military for spray cans. Weigh them on a fine grained scale - write the weight.

Re-weigh every year. If they don't weigh the same, they have lost their gas. Replace those.

Don't believe it works? Take two cans of compressed air and weigh them, then discharge one. There is a remarkable weight difference.

Practical solution and makes sense.

A co worker of mine once threw a back pack in the back of his car an it set off a can of bear spray. It was a late model Volvo and it was totaled, destroyed the interior of the car.

eelj wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:33 pm A co worker of mine once threw a back pack in the back of his car an it set off a can of bear spray. It was a late model Volvo and it was totaled, destroyed the interior of the car.

What did it do? Deteriorate the material? Or leave scent?

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:58 pm

eelj wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:33 pm A co worker of mine once threw a back pack in the back of his car an it set off a can of bear spray. It was a late model Volvo and it was totaled, destroyed the interior of the car.

What did it do? Deteriorate the material? Or leave scent?

Hard to drive when you can't breath or see.

Edited to add: a cop I know has been tazed and pepper sprayed as part of his training. He says he'll take a tazer any day but the pepper spray was horrible. Problem with pepper spray is it doesn't work particularly well on people who are out of their mind high. Bullits seem to give less of a shit. If it's in my home, I'll save the spray for the bears who one can be reasonably sure aren't on drugs.

There was a recent incident at an Amazon warehouse where a robot punctured some bear spray. People went to the hospital.

https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... pitalized/

It is some serious stuff.

These things are not guaranteed to be "non lethal". It is very hard to get a measured dosage. The best use practice is to spray at the nose and eyes of the assailant. But it would be really easy to over do it and kill someone. Seriously. Basically the same with pepper spray. If the assailant has asthma, paper spray can easily kill.

I carry almost every day, on the street and in the house. It's less about being paranoid than it is about being prepared. Whenever I have my jeans on (which is basically every waking hour), I have a flash light, a multitool, and a pen/glassbreaker. The pistol is either on the hip, in the back pocket, in a bag nearby, or in the car.

In winter I carry mostly a Glock 19 or a S&W M&P9c. Both are striker fired with no safety. In the beginning I wasn't comfortable carrying them, but today I'm completely fine after shooting several thousand rounds through them.

I'm anal retentive enough that I can trust myself to be completely safe with no manual safety on the pistol, the holster is the safety. Just like a fixed blade knife has no safety, the sheath is the safety. None of my handguns can fire without the trigger pulled, and the trigger can't move when it's covered by the holster. The Glock was famously dropped from a helicopter without firing. I can throw any of my pistols against the wall and be confident that it won't go off.

I can't say the same about older SIG P320 pistols without the revised trigger, if you drop them at a certain angle they will fire.

I assume that when I draw it will be in a hurry, but when I holster I'd have all the time in the world, so I always holster it slowly and carefully.

This philosophy is not for everybody, but it works for me.

Stiff wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:36 pm but when I holster I'd have all the time in the world, so I always holster it slowly and carefully.

I've never understood the reasoning behind fast reholstering (not that I can get a gun out of a holster very quickly either... just not a skill I practice based on location). If LEO is on the scene, it seems like you'd be better off putting the gun on the ground than sticking it back in your belt... I can't think of any other reason you'd need to holster quickly.

Now back to feels, I feels like I like stainless-n-wood the best. But most of my guns are black for practicality. Someday, maybe I'll have some purdy ones. Although my stainless Mini (need to replace the birch with walnut...) and 686+ are both lookers. I do so desire a Dan Wesson stainless with some purdy wood grips.

I have a holstered crowbar on my mountain bike. Three bucks from Harbor Freight. I ride it almost daily.

/guns, I don't pack so much these days.

KlownKannon wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:22 pm I have a holstered crowbar on my mountain bike.

Super tire lever?

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:36 pm

KlownKannon wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:22 pm I have a holstered crowbar on my mountain bike.

Super tire lever?

That's the story I'll stick to until I have to use it to banjo the ever livin' fuck cakes out of a rear view mirror, in which case I ditch it and ride like hell.

/former bike messenger
//I don't carry a U lock any more.

KlownKannon wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:40 pm

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:36 pm

KlownKannon wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:22 pm I have a holstered crowbar on my mountain bike.

Super tire lever?

That's the story I'll stick to until I have to use it to banjo the ever livin' fuck cakes out of a rear view mirror, in which case I ditch it and ride like hell.

/former bike messenger
//I don't carry a U lock any more.

I was never a bike messenger but commuted daily by bike in San Francisco for about 2 years (20 miles round trip). Amazingly, I only got clipped once and managed to stay upright. Caught the fucker at the next light and gave him a piece of my mind.

I can't say the same thing for the first time I rode clipless. Fell right the fuck over, slow-mo graceful-style, at my first stop light. Glory days.

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:00 pm

atxgunguy wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:45 pm Bear Spray is a good alternative for those who can/won't/wouldn't use a handgun. The Frontiersman brand has 2% capsaicin, which is the maximum allowed by current EPA standards. Non-lethal and if it'll make an enraged bear think twice, the local drunkard or thief will seriously re-evaluate their current life decisions. Granted, not as good as 124gr. hollow points, but better than a sharp stick.

Where does one buy bear-spray and how long does it remain good?

I would bet that your Cabelas has it in their hunting section.