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Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:31 am
by YankeeTarheel
Why am I, a devout Agnostic and non-practicing Jew, asking this question?

Ironically, because I do accept that he was real and not imaginary.
Of course, I'm not speaking of the jolly fat guy in the red suit, who evolved from the Dutch Sinterklaas and English Father Christmas:

Sinterklaas:
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Father Christmas:
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America's Santa Claus:
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But the original Saint Nicholas. (Saint Nicholas ==> Santa Nicklaus ==> Santa 'Klaus ==> Santa Claus) was an early Christian bishop:
wikipedia wrote:Saint Nicholas of Myra[a] (traditionally 15 March 270 – 6 December 343),[3][4] also known as Nicholas of Bari, was an early Christian bishop of the ancient Greek city of Myra in Asia Minor (modern-day Demre, Turkey) during the time of the Roman Empire.[7] He is revered by many Christians as a saint.[8] Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercession, he is also known as Nicholas the Wonderworker.[c] Saint Nicholas is the patron saint of sailors, merchants, archers, repentant thieves, children, brewers, pawnbrokers, and students in various cities and countries around Europe. His reputation evolved among the faithful, as was common for early Christian saints, and his legendary habit of secret gift-giving gave rise to the traditional model of Santa Claus ("Saint Nick") through Sinterklaas.

In 1087, after the Byzantine Empire temporarily lost control of the region to the Seljuk Turks, a group of merchants from the Italian city of Bari removed the major bones of Nicholas's skeleton from his sarcophagus without authorization and brought them to their hometown, where they are now enshrined in the Basilica di San Nicola. The remaining bone fragments from the sarcophagus were later removed by Venetian sailors and taken to Venice during the First Crusade.


Supposedly, at the Council of Nicea, Nicholas attacked either an Arrian or Arrius himself, but the story may be invented. However, Nicholas was a fanatic and was apparently a brawler as his remains have a broken nose.

A later legend, first attested in the fourteenth century, over 1,000 years after Nicholas's death, holds that, during the Council of Nicaea, Nicholas lost his temper and slapped "a certain Arian" across the face.[48] On account of this, Constantine revoked Nicholas's miter and pallium.[48] Stephen D. Greydanus concludes that, because of the story's late attestation, it "has no historical value."[48] Jona Lendering defends the historicity of the incident, arguing that, because it was embarrassing and reflects poorly on Nicholas's reputation, it is inexplicable why later hagiographers would have made it up.[21] Later versions of the legend embellish it,[48] making the heretic Arius himself[48][54] and having Nicholas punch him rather than merely slapping him with his open hand.


There are two reconstructions of Nicholas's face from his skull and remains. The first is rather severe and he looks like a fanatic.
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The second, done in the UK a few years ago, shows an older and kinder looking man, closer to our mythical "Santa", but both have the broken nose:
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However, Byzantine representations of Nicholas appear far more similar to the first image than the 2nd:
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I just find the sources of myths and legends from the real events to be fascinating. There's lots more on Nicholas, and the Council of Nicea, and even whether he was there or not--after all, it's 1700 years ago.

(and even if St. Nicholas was White, as Megyn Kelly insisted, which isn't at all determined, he wasn't Nordic White, with rosy cheeks, but, at a minimum an olive-skinned rather swarthy Greek, about 5' 6" tall.)

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:42 am
by HuckleberryFun
Trump tells children that you’re a loser If you believe in Santa Claus. Bah humbug!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/us/p ... iever.html
Hey, kids under 8 years old, thanks for reading The New York Times. But this time, please don’t. Maybe go play Minecraft or something instead.

… O.K., are they gone now? Cool. Here’s what President Trump said to a child about Santa Claus on Monday.

Donald Trump, answering phone call from 7-year-old on Christmas Eve: "Are you still a believer in Santa? Because at seven it's marginal, right?" pic.twitter.com/VHexvFSbQ1
— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) December 25, 2018

Sadly, we do not know how the 7-year-old, named Coleman, responded to the president of the United States’ suggestion that his parents had been lying to him all his life and that he would probably get wise to it soon. The president made the comments from the White House while he and the first lady, Melania Trump, fielded calls from a hotline for children wondering where Santa was.
Mr. Trump’s faux pas was roundly mocked on social media, where he was criticized for breaking the covenant in which we have all agreed to deceive our children.

But in case you’re wondering: The president was right. It is, indeed, marginal at 7.
Most children stop believing in Santa somewhere between 5 and 8 years old, according to several studies. That range has been largely consistent for decades; a 1978 study said that 85 percent of 5-year-olds believed, while just 25 percent of 8-year-olds kept the faith.

One 2015 study from Australia found that children are catching on earlier, perhaps because the internet is full of spoilers.
It appeared the Trumps were enjoying the occasion, which is part of the annual Santa-tracking program run by the North American Aerospace Defense Command, known as Norad. Mr. Trump let out an ear-to-ear smile during his discussion with Coleman, while Ms. Trump called it “one of my favorite traditions.”

Helping children across the country track #Santa is becoming one of my favorite traditions! @Potus and I enjoyed working with @NORADSanta - #ChristmasEve pic.twitter.com/CYNkARbFaI
— Melania Trump (@FLOTUS) December 25, 2018

And Coleman, who was probably going to figure it out eventually anyway, will now have a story to tell for the rest of his life. Merry Christmas to all.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:51 am
by YankeeTarheel
"Everything Trump Touches, Dies" -- Rick Wilson

I was just trying to give a reason why "belief" in Santa Claus has an historical basis in a real person who existed, like King Tut or Charlemagne.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:55 am
by HuckleberryFun
YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:51 am "Everything Trump Touches, Dies" -- Rick Wilson

I was just trying to give a reason why "belief" in Santa Claus has an historical basis in a real person who existed, like King Tut or Charlemagne.
I know. I was just happy to squeeze it in here rather than start yet another thread on The Satanic One.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:06 pm
by VodoundaVinci
Not so much Santa but Krampus? Now he's my kind of Dude...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrKL7D7QZRA

VooDoo

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:50 pm
by highdesert
YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:51 am "Everything Trump Touches, Dies" -- Rick Wilson

I was just trying to give a reason why "belief" in Santa Claus has an historical basis in a real person who existed, like King Tut or Charlemagne.
Yea Donnie always puts his foot into it, then says how great he is. Interesting, didn't know that about St Nicholas. There is so much myth and legend when it comes to saints, thankfully there are the Bollandists. Jean Bolland was a Belgian Jesuit - the Jesuits are the largest religious order in the Catholic Church known for their universities around the world.
The Bollandist Society is a Jesuit research institute dedicated to the critical study of Greek, Latin, Oriental and vernacular hagiographic [related to saints] literature as well as to the history of the saints and their cults. Founded in the early 17th century this is one of the oldest scientific societies in the world.
https://www.bollandistes.org

Your pic of Coca-Cola Santa says it all about the commercialism of modern Santa.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:52 pm
by YankeeTarheel
Coke has had many depictions of Santa drinking a coke. I guess the image is in the public domain so they cannot be sued.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:35 pm
by Bisbee
I heard this recently on the radio (PRI) about the Krampus Festival in Austria. Thought of y’all immediately because I learned so much about the history of Krampus and Wanted to share:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-12-18/ ... g-his-edge
83646607-AA82-45B7-B22B-D844DBBF2120.jpeg

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:43 pm
by wooglin
Saint Nick? Sure. Jesus? Ok. Historical figures both. Stymied by the Easter bunny though.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:28 pm
by lsj74
I know this is kind of a dick thing to do but I'm gonna leave it here anyway.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:14 pm
by KlownKannon
VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:06 pm Not so much Santa but Krampus? Now he's my kind of Dude...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrKL7D7QZRA

VooDoo
I was tasked with making a Krampus decoration for the lab.....I got a bit carried away.
48361006_10216455425725536_3097270937720979456_n.jpg
48371456_10216464569034113_724892687454437376_n.jpg
Eventually he got bored standing around so we put him to work.
48211981_10216471227320566_4092083297318862848_o.jpg
48392551_10216471257881330_6341802877954031616_n.jpg

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:55 pm
by YankeeTarheel
:lol: :roflmao:
"...and to all a good night!" (but check the closets and under the bed just in case! :( :o :shock: :? :evil: :evo: :w00t: :wacko: :crazy: )

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:28 am
by CDFingers
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CDFingers

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:14 pm
by eelj
One thing can be safely said. No matter what religion or location in the world, this time of the year people are celebrating a pagan festival of some kind.

Too bad people don't hang magic mushrooms on their trees anymore. Reindeer gobble up those beautiful red with white spotted fungi like fiends and prance around high as a kite. Santas sleigh was pulled by 8 of them.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:31 pm
by KlownKannon
eelj wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:14 pm One thing can be safely said. No matter what religion or location in the world, this time of the year people are celebrating a pagan festival of some kind.

Too bad people don't hang magic mushrooms on their trees anymore. Reindeer gobble up those beautiful red with white spotted fungi like fiends and prance around high as a kite. Santas sleigh was pulled by 8 of them.
I'd pay good money to watch reindeer trippin' balls.

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:12 pm
by eelj
KlownKannon wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:31 pm
eelj wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:14 pm One thing can be safely said. No matter what religion or location in the world, this time of the year people are celebrating a pagan festival of some kind.

Too bad people don't hang magic mushrooms on their trees anymore. Reindeer gobble up those beautiful red with white spotted fungi like fiends and prance around high as a kite. Santas sleigh was pulled by 8 of them.
I'd pay good money to watch reindeer trippin' balls.
What would you pay for a drinking horn full of their urine?

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:02 pm
by YankeeTarheel
eelj wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:12 pm
KlownKannon wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:31 pm
eelj wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:14 pm One thing can be safely said. No matter what religion or location in the world, this time of the year people are celebrating a pagan festival of some kind.

Too bad people don't hang magic mushrooms on their trees anymore. Reindeer gobble up those beautiful red with white spotted fungi like fiends and prance around high as a kite. Santas sleigh was pulled by 8 of them.
I'd pay good money to watch reindeer trippin' balls.
What would you pay for a drinking horn full of their urine?
Ugh! That's truly gross! No, don't bother to explain, please!

Re: Do You Believe in Santa Claus?

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:23 pm
by highdesert
"Is Santa Actually a Mushroom Trip?"
https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index ... man-santa/

Two other articles I stumbled on.

"The history of Jews, Chinese food, and Christmas, explained by a rabbi"
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/12/2 ... r-american

"Why Japan celebrates Christmas with KFC"
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201612 ... s-with-kfc