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Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:25 am
by HuckleberryFun
I’m all for fewer entanglements overseas, but this Syria pullout is just leaving Russia as the winner. Go figure.
Putin praises American abandonment of the Kurds (yet again) and leaving him the field. I smell Treason.
To think we lost so much standing all because one man watched some hookers pee on a Moscow bed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/worl ... syria.html
MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia on Thursday welcomed President Trump’s announcement of a withdrawal of American troops from Syria, calling it “the right decision.”

Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that he was ordering the withdrawal because the United States military had achieved its goal of defeating the Islamic State militant group in Syria. But the move caught many by surprise, including some of his military and diplomatic advisers. It has also drawn criticism, even among Republicans, for abandoning Kurdish allies in the fight against the Islamic State and for aiding the geopolitical ambitions of Iran and Russia in the Middle East.

Speaking at his annual news conference, which typically runs for several hours, Mr. Putin said he broadly agreed that the Islamic State had been defeated in Syria. “Donald’s right, and I agree with him,” Mr. Putin said.

The Russian leader expressed skepticism, however that American forces would actually withdraw, as the United States had announced a pullout from Afghanistan by 2014 but still has forces in that country today.
“We don’t see any signs yet of the withdrawal of U.S. troops,” he said. “How long has the United States been in Afghanistan? Seventeen years? And almost every year they say they’re pulling out their troops.”

Regarding Syria, he said, Mr. Trump made the right decision because the American troops are in the country illegally, never having been invited by the Syrian government, as Russian forces were.

The United States had backed opponents of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, though the approximately 2,000 American troops in the country have mostly avoided direct combat with the Russian-backed Syrian Army and its proxies. In February, American soldiers repelled an attack on their position by forces that included Russian citizens working for a Russian security contracting company.

Russia and the United States have observed a “de-conflicting” agreement to avoid direct engagement between their armed forces.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 am
by YankeeTarheel
Trump keeps giving Russia and Putin gifts, to the detriment of the USA.
Russia committed, and continues to commit overt acts of cyber war against the USA, our allies and even some enemies, and Trump works HARD to defeat efforts to stop them.
Russia is clearly an enemy, and Trump is clearly giving aid and comfort to this enemy. And that's the Constitutional definition of Treason.

Even ReThuglican flip-floppers like Graham and Rubio realize this is a DREADFUL action at this time. I won't say "mistake" because it's not a mistake; it's a deliberate action to put the welfare of two enemy states, Syria and Russia, ahead of the interests of the US.

Meanwhile, Trump is pushing to lift sanctions on Russia, all the while, in every other tweet, writing "NO COLLUSION!!!!" as if saying it a thousand times makes it true.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:47 am
by HuckleberryFun
YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 am Trump keeps giving Russia and Putin gifts, to the detriment of the USA.
Russia committed, and continues to commit overt acts of cyber war against the USA, our allies and even some enemies, and Trump works HARD to defeat efforts to stop them.
Russia is clearly an enemy, and Trump is clearly giving aid and comfort to this enemy. And that's the Constitutional definition of Treason.

Even ReThuglican flip-floppers like Graham and Rubio realize this is a DREADFUL action at this time. I won't say "mistake" because it's not a mistake; it's a deliberate action to put the welfare of two enemy states, Syria and Russia, ahead of the interests of the US.

Meanwhile, Trump is pushing to lift sanctions on Russia, all the while, in every other tweet, writing "NO COLLUSION!!!!" as if saying it a thousand times makes it true.
And a legion of enabling apparatchiks try to cover for him, not because they like him but to “maintain confidence” in our system. If we knew how bad things really were behind the scenes we’d be in the streets manning the barricades.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:33 am
by highdesert
dougb's comment from the other thread is spot on.
dougb wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:26 pm Trump is truly the finest act of espionage ever committed by the Russians.
posting.php?mode=quote&f=65&p=693416

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:36 pm
by TrueTexan
I agree with Huck on the fewer entanglements. In fact we caused much of the problems in the Middle East along with other parts of the world i.e.Central and South America along with Sub Sahara Africa. We have lost thousands of American lives over the years, spent Trillions of Dollars and have gained nothing.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:03 pm
by featureless
Kind of reminds me of this notable victory.
Image


Syria is a fucking mess. I feel sorry for the people trying to eek out a living there but I don't see how our presence fixes anything, as it is. It will teach others we make poor allies (certainly the Kurds must think so).

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:34 pm
by AndyH
featureless wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:03 pm ... It will teach others we make poor allies (certainly the Kurds must think so).
This is exactly how the USA made Bin Laden hate us so much that he tried multiple times to bring down the WTC.

We have an amazing opportunity to ease suffering and improve the lives of so many people but we keep making it worse instead.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:57 pm
by featureless
Territorial pissing. We excel at it.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:32 pm
by popgunn
Putin must have something big on Trump. I think when Vlad squeezes out all Trump can give him. He will laugh and sell out this stooge. Then we will know.
I fear for the Kurds. We are betraying them. Who will trust us now? Trump has boiled it all down to money, yet he is not capable of calculating the future costs.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:44 pm
by Aztex999
Yes, it's going to take many years to regain the trust of any past and future allies. We're selling out the Kurds just like we did the Iraqi Shiites after the first Gulf War (the supposed good one). Will they fight the Turks to the death; or retreat to become yet another branch of ISIS? We won't care - we'll be too distracted by our next recession.
Everything Trump touches turns to shit.

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:06 pm
by highdesert
Yes, we've betrayed our strong ally the Kurds and also the French. Erdogan is massing troops on the border with Syria and Russia is telling Erdogan to stay out and let Assad handle it. I hope we can safely help get the Kurds out.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... sis-turkey

Re: Syria Pullout

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:15 pm
by YankeeTarheel
Aztex999 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:44 pm Yes, it's going to take many years to regain the trust of any past and future allies. We're selling out the Kurds just like we did the Iraqi Shiites after the first Gulf War (the supposed good one). Will they fight the Turks to the death; or retreat to become yet another branch of ISIS? We won't care - we'll be too distracted by our next recession.
Everything Trump touches turns to shit.
It will not and cannot happen as long as the shit-stain is President. Throwing him out via 25a, Impeachment, or resignation followed by the new President's explicit repudiation of Shit-stain's betrayal, is probably the strongest message we can send. Short of that, defeating him for re-election followed by explicit repudiation, will help, but, as you say, it will take years to repair the damage, and it never will be completely repaired.

The longer he stays in office, the worse it will be.

And those who lost friends and family to death that didn't have to happen will NEVER forgive us, as so many in Iraq will never forgive us. Why should that? If you got my wife, brother, son, niece, nephew or in-law killed because you're an asshole (like Dubya&Co were, or Trump is), I and my family would hate you for generations. In reality, my maternal great-grandmother was so badly beaten by the Tsar's Cossacks in a pogrom in the late 19th century that she died, and my paternal grandfather was sent to Siberia as a teen by him for political activism, so that when people weep over how that anti-Semitic incompetent ignorant bastard was murdered, I have ZERO sympathy and figure he had far too many people murdered the same way and got what he deserved. He's no martyr and no hero.