I'm a moderator on a forum that is based in the UK...we are a group of Developers and Flight Simulator aficionados that use an Open Source Flight Sim Software (FlightGear) that has been being developed for decades +. We have a *very* sophisticated, realistic, powerful, and flexible engine and dozens of highly developed aircraft models and flight systems. Every Saturday now for many years we get together with sometimes as many as a dozen pilots and fly together over virtual airspace. The flight lasts 2 hours and we have people from all over the UK, Europe, and USA all flying together over the 'Net and we have a great time talking shop, economics, politics, food, etc but the thing that stuns me most is how much we have accomplished at a very sophisticated level with no Boss, no brick and mortar resources, and *no money* has changed hands.
We have developed systems and sophisticated software over many years with no money changing hands. There doesn't have to be money involved and actually I feel that the whole concept spoils the soup. That everyone is motivated to excellence because of the lure of personal gain is a myth. Happy healthy humans will contribute and learn and study and achieve without the filth of money.....the whole team prospers, we all work together and delegate tasks to the people that most like to do them and are most interested in contributing. The continued success and participation of all people is thrilling and a reward unto it's own.
It can be done....highly successful and sophisticated things can be developed and improved without anyone getting paid or without anyone being The Boss or getting the profit. I smirk when people say that without a "job" most people will sit on their ass and do nothing all day....surely, some will. But most people love to contribute and improve and make cool stuff. The success of the whole is more important to a single individual running the show....Humans are social animals and adore to be part of the whole. It's the one's that have to get 10,000X what everyone else has and need to justify their genius by having more money/power than everyone else that need purged and slapped down.
I'm a moderator on a forum that is based in the UK...We have developed systems and sophisticated software over many years with no money changing hands.
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But most people love to contribute and improve and make cool stuff. The success of the whole is more important to a single individual running the show....Humans are social animals and adore to be part of the whole.
Exactly - self created meaning and identity - humans need this. Congratulations to you and your cohorts.
VodoundaVinci said:
It's the one's that have to get 10,000X what everyone else has and need to justify their genius by having more money/power than everyone else that need purged and slapped down.
Many don't even have a genius to justify - they just had wealthy parents or grandparents. But 'Yes' the drive in some people to have a 'better xxx' than others is strong. (I may have told this story before) I had a boss in the 1990s who had this disease. He had to prove he was winning with his car. He ordered a custom 500 series Mercedes. It cost a fortune. The first day he drove it, he took his girlfriend to a restaurant, but they had to wait a long time for the valet to park the car, because they guy in from of him had a 600 series Mercedes. He spent all that money and effort to be outshined by someone else on the first day.
None of us can survive long without others. The folks who have gotten rich only got that way because of the rest of us. I have a sister in law (filthy fucking wealthy now) that thinks everyone who doesn't have several million in the bank is a slacker, underachiever, didn't study hard in school, lazy, stupid, blah, blah, blah. To be fair she came from family farm upbringing and studied to be a dentist...she married my brother (also a dentist) and they have made tons of money over the decades. She feels it's because she is superior - my brother credits his staff and luck.
Anyway, She was bitching one day about people who work for her wanting a "Living Wage" and she couldn't understand why people who work at restaurants, and water filtration plants and car mechanics and people who fix the streets *dared* to think they should get a living wage even though they weren't doctors/engineers etc.
She feels she is a one woman ass kicking contest and that she needs no one. She has the money - everyone else is slacking. I asked her if she could fix her own roads and bridges. She said no. I asked if she wanted to go to a 5 star restaurant and cook her own supper...she said no. I asked if she could fix her own car. She said no.
I told her: Then quit bitching. We all need each other. We all contribute and we all succeed or fail as a group/team. Money is nothing - can't burn enough to stay warm - can't eat it - can't wear it. You need people who give a shit and work hard.
It's illegal to be outside the system in most of the rest of the US.
I think this is basically true - I believe that if we all decided to get together, use land peaceably in a reasonable way, agree to work together, feed and protect one another - let's say a group of 100 people. I think that at the end of the first year, we would likely have broken hundreds of laws and violated hundreds more regulations.
A modern complex society does need regulations: we simply have way too many that reach into way too many areas.
The key person in a 'real' Ashram is the lawyer. The person who registers the organization, sets up the by-laws and charter in such a way that the collective is not illegal from day one.
This isn't about an ashram or having a good lawyer and that's really the thing. We definitely need laws and regulations. The problem is that too many of them are written to support a local utility or supplier or politician. Too many have gone from supporting the social good to a form of welfare for corporations. If you're interested in seeing this in more detail, watch the documentary called "Garbage Warrior". Reynolds is a licensed architect in multiple states and had been developing various types of housing for years. He bought a bunch of land north of Taos and built his house. Eventually they developed a subdivision and got shut down not long after the old county zoning manager retired. His buildings catch rainwater, produce all of their own electricity, process their own sewage to levels that far surpass municipal standards for effluent from processing plants, and grow food. They don't need to be connected to the power distribution infrastructure, sewage, or water systems. The state shut them down hard and he lost his licenses. It took five years to push a 'test site' law through the NM state house (mirrored after the way the state allowed nuclear testing, of all things) in order to have the right to experiment with improving housing on his own land. He's since gotten his licenses back and continues to build around the world.
When I commented that it's illegal to do the right thing in many areas, I really meant it. I wasted about 7 years trying to find a way to build a self-sufficient passive solar house within 40 miles of San Antonio and even with lawyers all I got was more white hair and less money.
VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:54 pm
None of us can survive long without others. The folks who have gotten rich only got that way because of the rest of us. I have a sister in law (filthy fucking wealthy now) that thinks everyone who doesn't have several million in the bank is a slacker, underachiever, didn't study hard in school, lazy, stupid, blah, blah, blah. To be fair she came from family farm upbringing and studied to be a dentist...she married my brother (also a dentist) and they have made tons of money over the decades. She feels it's because she is superior - my brother credits his staff and luck.
Anyway, She was bitching one day about people who work for her wanting a "Living Wage" and she couldn't understand why people who work at restaurants, and water filtration plants and car mechanics and people who fix the streets *dared* to think they should get a living wage even though they weren't doctors/engineers etc.
She feels she is a one woman ass kicking contest and that she needs no one. She has the money - everyone else is slacking. I asked her if she could fix her own roads and bridges. She said no. I asked if she wanted to go to a 5 star restaurant and cook her own supper...she said no. I asked if she could fix her own car. She said no.
I told her: Then quit bitching. We all need each other. We all contribute and we all succeed or fail as a group/team. Money is nothing - can't burn enough to stay warm - can't eat it - can't wear it. You need people who give a shit and work hard.
At least she blushed.
VooDoo
Well done! [insert massive 'like' button here and jump up and down on it]
I think the challenge that folks like Voodoo's sister-n-law is self love. While she may believe and say to everyone else that she got where she is now because of hard work and blah blah blah, what they are actually revealing is an empty hole somewhere in their heart that can't be filled. "If you can't appreciate you-self, there ain't appreciatn' no one else."
The inhabitants of the Hungry Ghost Realm are depicted as creatures with scrawny necks, small mouths, emaciated limbs and large, bloated, empty bellies. This is the domain of addiction, where we constantly seek something outside ourselves to curb an insatiable yearning for relief or fulfillment. The aching emptiness is perpetual because the substances, objects or pursuits we hope will soothe it are not what we really need. We don’t know what we need, and so long as we stay in the hungry ghost mode, we’ll never know. We haunt our lives without being fully present.
Hungry Ghost describes this woman perfectly. Even her daughters laugh behind her back that it's all about money and pushing peoples buttons for her.
She's a very talented person but so shallow and incapable of empathy Spiritually that she is a waste. But this is off topic - i just goes to show how Capitalism has become some kind of affirmation to Rich People that they are superior even though it is simply not the case.
It's true that capitalism owns the planet (paraphrase). Unless it collapses due to excessive debt, we're stuck with it. That being said, there is a case to be made for managing capitalism so that more folks enjoy a higher standard of living. This, however, flies in the face of the driving factors, greed and the need to be the richest. Tough nut to crack. The one who wants to be number one does not care that people suffer and die.
We need to change the rules such that having all the money is not seen as valuable as being the person who helped more folks to have more money such that everyone was comfy.
