Military-Grade Night Vision Gear Is Widely Available To Civilians — And That’s A Problem

Night vision equipment is “not the tool of sportsmen,” Everitt said. “It’s the tool of people who are seeking to kill as many people as possible in as short amount of time as possible.”

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives does not regulate the sale or use of night vision equipment, a spokesperson said, and the legality of using night vision devices for hunting varies by state.

“When you lose government oversight, you lose the opportunity to ensure that equipment isn’t going to countries where U.S. intelligence thinks it should not be going,” Goodman said.

Not allowing us to see what they are doing in the dark?
Full of symbolism, that.

Night vision video of professional hunters armed with silenced 300 blackout ARs killing off entire sounders of wild hogs in Texas is one of my guilty YouTube pleasures. Perfect convergence of environmentalism, firearms, and hunting. The only real long term solution is reintroduction of wolves but that kind of talk is commie pinko craziness so the night hunters are the best thing out there controlling the pigs.

In a state like Arizona where hunting at night is strictly verboten, other than coyote hunting during winter months, why would anyone require night vision gear? And even during night time coyote hunting the use of vision-enhancement equipment other than spotlights is strictly verboten. And the spotlight must be hand held. No vehicle or gun mounted lights.

OK, I get it. Civilians need night vision enhancement to defend their property from bad guys. I get it. But if you're doing that you keep the equipment in your home.

HuckleberryFun wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:43 pm Not allowing us to see what they are doing in the dark?
Full of symbolism, that.

Right?!

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am In a state like Arizona where hunting at night is strictly verboten, other than coyote hunting during winter months, why would anyone require night vision gear?

'Cause there's another 49 states?

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am OK, I get it. Civilians need night vision enhancement to defend their property from bad guys. I get it. But if you're doing that you keep the equipment in your home.

Might want the folks in their perimeter spider holes to have it as well, I'm guessing.

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

Taking my words out of context doesn't make a valid argument.

AndyH wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:48 am

HuckleberryFun wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:43 pm Not allowing us to see what they are doing in the dark?
Full of symbolism, that.

Right?!

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am In a state like Arizona where hunting at night is strictly verboten, other than coyote hunting during winter months, why would anyone require night vision gear?

'Cause there's another 49 states?

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am OK, I get it. Civilians need night vision enhancement to defend their property from bad guys. I get it. But if you're doing that you keep the equipment in your home.

Might want the folks in their perimeter spider holes to have it as well, I'm guessing.

So hunting wild hogs in Texas or some other state with night vision optics is fun? I'd consider it dangerous since wild hogs carry some pretty nasty diseases, can be unpredictable and you might get yourself killed by an inexperienced hunter.

So you live in a perimeter spider hole? Your night vision optics won't do you much good when the nasty local police and federal government FBI, ATF and DEA agents have predator drones at their disposal.

In what way does night vision equipment threaten anyone? The only people who could possibly be threatened by it are people who are up to no good and are worried about being caught.

Eris wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:50 pm In what way does night vision equipment threaten anyone? The only people who could possibly be threatened by it are people who are up to no good and are worried about being caught.

Local police, FBI, ATF, and DEA agents don't worry about getting caught. They might worry about if they have enough firepower. And if they think they have to go in at night they order up a helicopter or MRAP.

Here in Mn the number one objection against night vision ownership would come from the state DNR, on a personal level I could care less about them and see no reason to own one of my own.

If on the other hand I was a market hunting poacher who was selling venison I would own one. Or if I was a nosy peeping tom who liked to spy on people skinny dipping and fornicating outside after dark I would also like a set of goggles. Other than that can't see wasting any of my pension checks on one.

It works well for the feral dogs out here.

They have tried to attack both myself and my wife on several occasions, day and night. Luckily, we were on the good side of the fence.

County animal control is OK with it, too.

SR

harriss wrote:

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

Taking my words out of context doesn't make a valid argument.

I didn't, regardless of how much you might wish that to be the case. "Why would anyone require" <whatever> is not a sound basis for disallowing harmless things or activity.

harriss wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:37 pm

AndyH wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:48 am

HuckleberryFun wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:43 pm Not allowing us to see what they are doing in the dark?
Full of symbolism, that.

Right?!

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am In a state like Arizona where hunting at night is strictly verboten, other than coyote hunting during winter months, why would anyone require night vision gear?

'Cause there's another 49 states?

harriss wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 am OK, I get it. Civilians need night vision enhancement to defend their property from bad guys. I get it. But if you're doing that you keep the equipment in your home.

Might want the folks in their perimeter spider holes to have it as well, I'm guessing.

So hunting wild hogs in Texas or some other state with night vision optics is fun? I'd consider it dangerous since wild hogs carry some pretty nasty diseases, can be unpredictable and you might get yourself killed by an inexperienced hunter.

So you live in a perimeter spider hole? Your night vision optics won't do you much good when the nasty local police and federal government FBI, ATF and DEA agents have predator drones at their disposal.

Yes, actually, hunting wild hogs with night vision is fun. Hogs are a lot smarter than deer and they don't spend much time out and about during the day. I can't speak for other states, but the Texas Parks and Wildlife folks test the feral hog kills and they're not only not diseased but they're cleaner than grocery store pork.

An inexperienced hunter? Yup, could happen. LIberty means risk and responsibility. Could get a splinter or stub ones toe as well.

I was joking about the spider hole, but if you have to go there, feel free to describe how you expect the DEA to use their Predators and how the aircraft are configured. Why, again, are they hunting me?

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:12 pm

harriss wrote:

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

Taking my words out of context doesn't make a valid argument.

I didn't, regardless of how much you might wish that to be the case. "Why would anyone require" <whatever> is not a sound basis for disallowing harmless things or activity.

Using night vision optics to hunt in Arizona is against the rules. The authorities have ruled that using night vision optics to hunt coyote at night is against the rules. I realize you're not in Arizona. If your attitude is rules are made to be broken then come to Arizona to hunt coyote at night with night vision optics. But if you come near my hunting camp, I'll drop a dime.

harriss wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:54 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:12 pm

harriss wrote:

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am
Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

Taking my words out of context doesn't make a valid argument.

I didn't, regardless of how much you might wish that to be the case. "Why would anyone require" <whatever> is not a sound basis for disallowing harmless things or activity.

Using night vision optics to hunt in Arizona is against the rules. The authorities have ruled that using night vision optics to hunt coyote at night is against the rules. I realize you're not in Arizona. If your attitude is rules are made to be broken then come to Arizona to hunt coyote at night with night vision optics. But if you come near my hunting camp, I'll drop a dime.

Seems you might be fixated on 1. hunting and 2. Arizona and might be missing what's DM's saying. I don't always agree with him but I think he's right here: "why would anyone require..." is not a reason for denying another of something you're free to not want to use for whatever purpose.

In a general sense, “Why would anybody need that?” should be permanently struck from the English language IMHO. That phase has done more to harm individual rights in the name of public safety for lack of proof to back either the assertion or the efficacy of its claims to prevent deaths.

HuckleberryFun wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:43 pm Not allowing us to see what they are doing in the dark?
Full of symbolism, that.

Good one!

harriss wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:31 pm Now you can repurpose your "tons of fun night vision optics."

I'm going tomorrow morning for a colonoscopy. I'm inviting all of you children who like to run around all night playing Cowboys and Indians to the doctor's office to play with your night vision optics while the doctor uses his night vision optics to probe my butt hole. How about that? Using night vision optics for one of its intended purposes. Then you can stick your own night vision optics in your own butt hole.

Have a nice day!

Hate to tell you but the Colonoscopy Scope doesn’t need night vision. The scope is a fiber optic tube that has a bright light source along with a camera and an eyepiece so the doctor can look without the TV hookup. Along with various instruments that can b attached for procedures as needed.

Hope all comes out well in the end.

You know, I would love to have a little cabin in the woods, and I plan on having it some day. But where I live, even if you live way out in the woods, there's still people that live nearby. Some places a half mile away. Some places a couple of hundred yards. Some of those neighbors are into crystal meth, some of them might be into harassing liberal lesbian neighbors. It sure would be nice to have a night vision scope to look around the woods when the dog starts barking. If there is someone there, I can bunker down till the cops arrive in 45 minutes or so. But it would be nice to see the prowler before they see you.

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

I agree about the "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. The same argument is used about AR15s and almost any device someone doesn’t like including Jacked up off road diesel pickups that never go off road.

Hiker wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:16 pm You know, I would love to have a little cabin in the woods, and I plan on having it some day. But where I live, even if you live way out in the woods, there's still people that live nearby. Some places a half mile away. Some places a couple of hundred yards. Some of those neighbors are into crystal meth, some of them might be into harassing liberal lesbian neighbors. It sure would be nice to have a night vision scope to look around the woods when the dog starts barking. If there is someone there, I can bunker down till the cops arrive in 45 minutes or so. But it would be nice to see the prowler before they see you.

Yes, or to spot the pointy Klan hats in the distance as they approach.

They do wear easily visible white...

SR

TrueTexan wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:57 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

harriss wrote:...why would anyone require night vision gear?

Because maybe someone who lives in AZ might wake up at 2AM thinking he or she wants to run around outside with night vision gear on--which would harm no one. This was supposed to be a free country.

The "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. What other harmless equipment might others decide you don't need simply because they don't like the idea of you having it?

I agree about the "why would anyone require" argument is a bad one. The same argument is used about AR15s and almost any device someone doesn’t like including Jacked up off road diesel pickups that never go off road.

An acquaintance was telling me that people don't need AR-15s "like they have in the Army" because no one needs to have such things. Of course, he has a 4+ bedroom house (no kids) and a fancy red Corvette (not his primary car). I just tried not to laugh. So much I could say, but it wouldn't change his mind.

harriss wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:31 pm Now you can repurpose your "tons of fun night vision optics."

I'm going tomorrow morning for a colonoscopy. I'm inviting all of you children who like to run around all night playing Cowboys and Indians to the doctor's office to play with your night vision optics while the doctor uses his night vision optics to probe my butt hole. How about that? Using night vision optics for one of its intended purposes. Then you can stick your own night vision optics in your own butt hole.

Have a nice day!

A colonoscope is not a night vision optic. Different tech altogether.

Anyone who does not like night vision equipment does not have to buy any.

K9s wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:29 pm

Hiker wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:16 pm You know, I would love to have a little cabin in the woods, and I plan on having it some day. But where I live, even if you live way out in the woods, there's still people that live nearby. Some places a half mile away. Some places a couple of hundred yards. Some of those neighbors are into crystal meth, some of them might be into harassing liberal lesbian neighbors. It sure would be nice to have a night vision scope to look around the woods when the dog starts barking. If there is someone there, I can bunker down till the cops arrive in 45 minutes or so. But it would be nice to see the prowler before they see you.

Yes, or to spot the pointy Klan hats in the distance as they approach.

Someone needs to sponsor a bill requiring that anyone who wears a pointy Klan hat also have a bulls eye clearly visible to night vision devices ...