Limits exist to tolerance, I’ve said many times this week and in the past. I think a similar paradox exists for free speech.

“Philosopher Karl Popper defined the paradox in 1945 in The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1.[1]
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/1 ... ree-Speech

Reading comprehension is a rare skill.

If I tolerate the intolerant I will become intolerant myself.
Gaa! I hate this Philosophy 1A world we live in now. All those thought exercises have become real life.

One need not tolerate the intolerable. It's OK to speak up.



Bite 'em when they need it.

CDFingers

And that's where our laws come in, as defined by our constitution, our legislative bodies and our courts. It's something western democracies argue about internally.

paradox - "a situation or statement that seems impossible or is difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics"

Speech is action.

The distinction between speech and action matters. Shouting fire in a crowded theatre endangers people’s safety and so is not just speech but also an “action” that can rightfully be outlawed. In contrast, showing contempt by burning the US flag or a copy of the Quran is “speech” and so should not be outlawed.

https://coelsblog.wordpress.com/2017/02 ... d-actions/
https://www.brainpickings.org/2017/05/1 ... ch-action/

harriss wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:55 pm Speech is action.

The distinction between speech and action matters. Shouting fire in a crowded theatre endangers people’s safety and so is not just speech but also an “action” that can rightfully be outlawed. In contrast, showing contempt by burning the US flag or a copy of the Quran is “speech” and so should not be outlawed.

https://coelsblog.wordpress.com/2017/02 ... d-actions/
https://www.brainpickings.org/2017/05/1 ... ch-action/

As My Dad told me about protesters during the Vietnam War. The right swing your fist freely ends where the other person's nose begins. The perfect example is the recent MAGABomber.

I still worry about this ... occasionally: The religion of Islam is currently the second largest religion in the world, and one which is growing rapidly in the United States and other nations.

Either: 1) Once established, the militant forces of Islam become dominate through religious jihad, or 2) A non-militant Muslim majority comes to power peacefully. In the first option their ideology will be forced on our population through the use of terror, and in the second option Sharia Law quietly replaces our current rule of law.

In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

The lense by which you view Islam is a bit narrow considering the history of its fellow Abrahamic brethren. Far more accurate would be how Catholicism managed to weave back and forth from violence several centuries ago. If we bemoan the violent jihaddhists of Islam, then we must admit the Crusades lasted for much longer and took far more lives in more gruesome ways (Spanish Inquisition). Rather than imply that Islamists are struggling with a particularly problematic religious identity (which I'm sure you don't yet your post may easily be interpreted as such) maybe you can wander in the history of Christianity and teach us and other Americans how it came to become so "accepting" in the United States and what this possibly indicates for Islam (and Zionism for that matter).

VrtlOfc wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:44 pm I still worry about this ... occasionally: The religion of Islam is currently the second largest religion in the world, and one which is growing rapidly in the United States and other nations.

Either: 1) Once established, the militant forces of Islam become dominate through religious jihad, or 2) A non-militant Muslim majority comes to power peacefully. In the first option their ideology will be forced on our population through the use of terror, and in the second option Sharia Law quietly replaces our current rule of law.

In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

Islam is literally a religion of peace. That some fringe 'pastors' mess that up in a typically human way is no different than the warped nutcases that can be found in Christianity or any other religion. Anyone that thinks that Christianity overall is about 'acceptance' might need an update on history.

Today, we hear that yet another "Christian" anti-Semitic bastard has murdered at least 8 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

I'm not worried about Muslim terrorists, or inner city gangs. THEY didn't concern me enough to arm myself. Guys like this Bowers prick are why.

So 33% of the world's population believe that a hairy old white man living in a cloud in the sky watches over their personal lives and waves a magic wand if they pray hard enough. Am I being intolerant? No. I'm just exercising my right to speak freely in a civil manner.

And 24%, give or take a few 10th's of a percent, since Jews and Muslims worship the same hairy old white man living in the sky, with the major difference being that Jews and Muslims don't believe this hairy old white man has ever walked on Earth in human form whereas Christians do.

So 57% of the total, world's population believes totally ridiculous nonsense. Am I being intolerant? No. I'm just exercising my right to speak freely in a civil manner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations

VrtlOfc wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:44 pm I still worry about this ... occasionally: The religion of Islam is currently the second largest religion in the world, and one which is growing rapidly in the United States and other nations.

Either: 1) Once established, the militant forces of Islam become dominate through religious jihad, or 2) A non-militant Muslim majority comes to power peacefully. In the first option their ideology will be forced on our population through the use of terror, and in the second option Sharia Law quietly replaces our current rule of law.

In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

Muslims make up about 1% of the US population. They aren't going to take over any time soon.

VrtlOfc wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:44 pm I still worry about this ... occasionally: The religion of Islam is currently the second largest religion in the world, and one which is growing rapidly in the United States and other nations.

Either: 1) Once established, the militant forces of Islam become dominate through religious jihad, or 2) A non-militant Muslim majority comes to power peacefully. In the first option their ideology will be forced on our population through the use of terror, and in the second option Sharia Law quietly replaces our current rule of law.

In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

Well, since "prefer not to play" is temporarily not working, I'll take the opportunity to suggest that this stupid ass islamophobic douchebag should be out of here on his ass. This is clearly a TOS violation.

I have to say that fears of Sharia law are way overblown. Sharia isn't even practiced in most Muslim dominated countries, and the kinds of people who move to the US are the ones least likely to accept it. Let's not get carried away VrtlOfc, and paint a billion+ people with the same overly broad brush. The very first person I ever came out to as trans was my Muslim roommate in college, and he was fully supportive of me. American Muslims are not like the Taliban. My experience knowing and working with them is that they tend to be among the more liberal minded people I've known.

I'm never going to be happy with LGC's soft hands policy towards fucking racists. That's why I'm no longer a moderator and no longer a chapter officer and no longer putting significant effort in to promoting the club. Nice to see there are things you can count on in this world of constant change. It'd be nicer if the unchanging thing wasn't so shitty.

Marlene wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:36 pm I'm never going to be happy with LGC's soft hands policy towards fucking racists. That's why I'm no longer a moderator and no longer a chapter officer and no longer putting significant effort in to promoting the club. Nice to see there are things you can count on in this world of constant change. It'd be nicer if the unchanging thing wasn't so shitty.

As in my OP, there is a limit to tolerance.

sikacz wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

Marlene wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:36 pm I'm never going to be happy with LGC's soft hands policy towards fucking racists. That's why I'm no longer a moderator and no longer a chapter officer and no longer putting significant effort in to promoting the club. Nice to see there are things you can count on in this world of constant change. It'd be nicer if the unchanging thing wasn't so shitty.

As in my OP, there is a limit to tolerance.

Amen.

Agree with sikacz- there are limits to tolerance.

As for sharia law taking over, that idea is straight from right wing media. It is nonsense. People come to this country to be free of that stuff, and to become Americans. Show me where ‘sharia law’ is a problem in this country. It is a distraction when the very real and immediate threat is coming from our very own right wing fringe.

VrtlOfc wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:44 pm I still worry about this ... occasionally: The religion of Islam is currently the second largest religion in the world, and one which is growing rapidly in the United States and other nations.

Either: 1) Once established, the militant forces of Islam become dominate through religious jihad, or 2) A non-militant Muslim majority comes to power peacefully. In the first option their ideology will be forced on our population through the use of terror, and in the second option Sharia Law quietly replaces our current rule of law.

In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

Consider this your only warning on the subject. Racism/Misogyny/etc, casual or otherwise, is a violation of the TOS- as you've been a member for 5 years, this is a warning rather than an immediate ban. If you were wondering-

Sexism, racism or other bigotry
If we warn you for casual racism, we mean it. Likewise, typical misogyny, casual or otherwise may earn you a warning. If you can't find other words to express yourself on a subject, avoid that subject. Outright racism will earn you a ban extremely quickly, possibly without warning.
We know it when we see it, so please don't experiment.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1321

VrtlOfc wrote:
In either scenario, the irony is that the religious intolerance made compulsory by Islam will be the result of our Christian capacity for religious acceptance. Let's hope that I'm wrong about this ...

No, the irony will be that Christians have eroded the notion that this is a secular state. So we’ll have a Christian taliban well before an Islamic one.
If you’re worried about demographic trends I’d think you’d be working extra hard on making sure minorities of all types have strong legal protections and social acceptance.

AndyH wrote:

sikacz wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

Marlene wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:36 pm I'm never going to be happy with LGC's soft hands policy towards fucking racists. That's why I'm no longer a moderator and no longer a chapter officer and no longer putting significant effort in to promoting the club. Nice to see there are things you can count on in this world of constant change. It'd be nicer if the unchanging thing wasn't so shitty.

As in my OP, there is a limit to tolerance.

Amen.

Yep, I will double that.


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YankeeTarheel wrote:Today, we hear that yet another "Christian" anti-Semitic bastard has murdered at least 8 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

I'm not worried about Muslim terrorists, or inner city gangs. THEY didn't concern me enough to arm myself. Guys like this Bowers prick are why.

YT, I agree and one of the reasons that I bother having a CCDW is because of all the wackjob “Christian”taliban running around with a belief that they are righteously entitled to violence. Stay safe.


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joemac wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:00 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:Today, we hear that yet another "Christian" anti-Semitic bastard has murdered at least 8 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

I'm not worried about Muslim terrorists, or inner city gangs. THEY didn't concern me enough to arm myself. Guys like this Bowers prick are why.

YT, I agree and one of the reasons that I bother having a CCDW is because of all the wackjob “Christian”taliban running around with a belief that they are righteously entitled to violence. Stay safe.


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I'll third that. It was Trump and the rise in hate crimes against transgender people that pushed me into getting a carry permit.

Eris wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:36 pm

joemac wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:00 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:Today, we hear that yet another "Christian" anti-Semitic bastard has murdered at least 8 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

I'm not worried about Muslim terrorists, or inner city gangs. THEY didn't concern me enough to arm myself. Guys like this Bowers prick are why.

YT, I agree and one of the reasons that I bother having a CCDW is because of all the wackjob “Christian”taliban running around with a belief that they are righteously entitled to violence. Stay safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll third that. It was Trump and the rise in hate crimes against transgender people that pushed me into getting a carry permit.

Pink Pistols?