The posts on this public forum do not necessarily represent the LGC
https://theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3/
It's "stop and frisk", the UK was really critical of that tactic in New York City. From reports it's juvenile gangs and not just knives, guns too.The Met Police has introduced targeted patrols with extra stop and search powers for areas worst-affected by knife crime
"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law."DispositionMatrix wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am Maybe just London.
https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/statu ... 6334668800
Here’s what the Mayor is doing to tackle violent crime
Criminals don't need guns or knives to do their work. They just need to be able to overcome their target's capability of self defense. If you deprive the law-abiding of tools, then the average capability of self defense is decreased, and criminals will celebrate the expanded target pool by engaging in a crime wave using whatever they can get their hands on, claw hammers, cricket bats, tire irons... The endgame is total state security and surveillance of everybody at all times. Turn the country into a prison, where people may only go where they are supposed to, when they are supposed to, wearing what they are supposed to, with no rights and no liberty. Then the subjects will have perfect safety.MARS822 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 pm"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law."DispositionMatrix wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am Maybe just London.
https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/statu ... 6334668800
Here’s what the Mayor is doing to tackle violent crime
... this just proves what we already know here at the LGC, it's not the tool, it's the nature of the beast. Take away guns, criminals will use knives. Take away knives, criminals will use...whatever.
The UK has been heading that way for a long time.methodmissing wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:57 pmCriminals don't need guns or knives to do their work. They just need to be able to overcome their target's capability of self defense. If you deprive the law-abiding of tools, then the average capability of self defense is decreased, and criminals will celebrate the expanded target pool by engaging in a crime wave using whatever they can get their hands on, claw hammers, cricket bats, tire irons... The endgame is total state security and surveillance of everybody at all times. Turn the country into a prison, where people may only go where they are supposed to, when they are supposed to, wearing what they are supposed to, with no rights and no liberty. Then the subjects will have perfect safety.MARS822 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 pm"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law."DispositionMatrix wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am Maybe just London.
https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/statu ... 6334668800
Here’s what the Mayor is doing to tackle violent crime
... this just proves what we already know here at the LGC, it's not the tool, it's the nature of the beast. Take away guns, criminals will use knives. Take away knives, criminals will use...whatever.
It isn't Baseball Bat it is a Cricket Bat in the UKDougMasters wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:13 pm First they take your knives, sooner or later you'll have to register your baseball bat.
You'd be surprised how popular baseball bats are in the UK. I can only assume that baseball is a popular underground sport, because I'm sure no one would buy a bat for any other reason.TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pmIt isn't Baseball Bat it is a Cricket Bat in the UKDougMasters wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:13 pm First they take your knives, sooner or later you'll have to register your baseball bat.
You're right, baseball bats are popular in the UK, with the wrong crowd. I doubt those buying them could explain to you the essentials of baseball. Actually baseball originated with Rounders which uses a shorter bat though a longer bat is sold that can be used with baseball or rounders. Amazon UK sells them so apparently no illegal.Eris wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:10 pmYou'd be surprised how popular baseball bats are in the UK. I can only assume that baseball is a popular underground sport, because I'm sure no one would buy a bat for any other reason.TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pmIt isn't Baseball Bat it is a Cricket Bat in the UKDougMasters wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:13 pm First they take your knives, sooner or later you'll have to register your baseball bat.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/237616/ ... on_uk.html
It's worse than stop-and-frisk, because in the US you at least have to claim some level of suspicion to justify stopping someone. But in England there is no such legal protection. The police can stop and search you at anytime, for any reason, in public. I don't know if they're still doing it, but one version of this "stop and search" was that they would either stop a whole bus, or cordon off a whole block, and search everyone with wands or portable airport-style metal detectors. No probable cause, no reasonable articulable suspicion, just "you're in a designated stop-and-search zone, so bend over."highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:07 amIt's "stop and frisk", the UK was really critical of that tactic in New York City. From reports it's juvenile gangs and not just knives, guns too.The Met Police has introduced targeted patrols with extra stop and search powers for areas worst-affected by knife crime
Oh there are other reasons. They better get on banning tactical bats before shit gets nutsEris wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:10 pmYou'd be surprised how popular baseball bats are in the UK. I can only assume that baseball is a popular underground sport, because I'm sure no one would buy a bat for any other reason.TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pmIt isn't Baseball Bat it is a Cricket Bat in the UKDougMasters wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:13 pm First they take your knives, sooner or later you'll have to register your baseball bat.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/237616/ ... on_uk.html
Yes "probable cause" is a US legal term, in the UK it's "reasonable grounds" to stop and search. In Scotland it's slightly different.Evo1 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pmIt's worse than stop-and-frisk, because in the US you at least have to claim some level of suspicion to justify stopping someone. But in England there is no such legal protection. The police can stop and search you at anytime, for any reason, in public. I don't know if they're still doing it, but one version of this "stop and search" was that they would either stop a whole bus, or cordon off a whole block, and search everyone with wands or portable airport-style metal detectors. No probable cause, no reasonable articulable suspicion, just "you're in a designated stop-and-search zone, so bend over."highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:07 amIt's "stop and frisk", the UK was really critical of that tactic in New York City. From reports it's juvenile gangs and not just knives, guns too.The Met Police has introduced targeted patrols with extra stop and search powers for areas worst-affected by knife crime
And, yes, they have a gun problem too, despite an almost complete ban on private ownership. If you remember the riots all over England in 2011, they were kicked off because of the shooting death by police of a young black man. He was killed by a special antigun unit tasked specifically with going after guns in the black community. The man killed was accused of being involved in the illicit gun trade. Police said they found a starter pistol, converted to shoot live ammo, in a sock, but the investigation showed that he had not drawn a weapon or fired at police. So yes, they still have enough of a problem with guns that they have to have special armed units tasked specifically with investigating it.
Notice, though, that their "reasonable grounds" are not just another term for our "probable cause"; the standard there is far looser even than our "reasonable articulable suspicion" required just to stop you here. Also notice that even that much looser requirement can be suspended on the order of a senior police officer, for nothing more than the fact that you are in the wrong place at the wrong time - not a restricted area, mind you, just someplace that any senior police officer determines warrants searching you. The point here wasn't whether they use the same legal terminology, it was the difference in the standard of suspicion required to stop and search you in public, and the fact that their standard is far weaker than our "probable cause" or even our "RAS" standard.highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:15 pmYes "probable cause" is a US legal term, in the UK it's "reasonable grounds" to stop and search. In Scotland it's slightly different.Evo1 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pmIt's worse than stop-and-frisk, because in the US you at least have to claim some level of suspicion to justify stopping someone. But in England there is no such legal protection. The police can stop and search you at anytime, for any reason, in public. I don't know if they're still doing it, but one version of this "stop and search" was that they would either stop a whole bus, or cordon off a whole block, and search everyone with wands or portable airport-style metal detectors. No probable cause, no reasonable articulable suspicion, just "you're in a designated stop-and-search zone, so bend over."highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:07 amIt's "stop and frisk", the UK was really critical of that tactic in New York City. From reports it's juvenile gangs and not just knives, guns too.The Met Police has introduced targeted patrols with extra stop and search powers for areas worst-affected by knife crime
And, yes, they have a gun problem too, despite an almost complete ban on private ownership. If you remember the riots all over England in 2011, they were kicked off because of the shooting death by police of a young black man. He was killed by a special antigun unit tasked specifically with going after guns in the black community. The man killed was accused of being involved in the illicit gun trade. Police said they found a starter pistol, converted to shoot live ammo, in a sock, but the investigation showed that he had not drawn a weapon or fired at police. So yes, they still have enough of a problem with guns that they have to have special armed units tasked specifically with investigating it.
https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-sto ... our-rights
Yes, the incident in 2011 was very controversial. The Independent Police Complaints Commission ultimately ruled for the Met constable. The major question was did the special police unit have to shoot the man, was he a threat to them?
Even though the UK is our mother country, they are different. They have no written constitution just some major historical documents. The executive (prime minister and cabinet) has a lot of power, there is no separation of powers, the executive is part of the legislative and the judiciary is not co-equal. In 2005 England and Wales abolished double jeopardy (under a Labour government), Scotland abolished it later, in the US that is the 5th amendment.Evo1 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:33 pmNotice, though, that their "reasonable grounds" are not just another term for our "probable cause"; the standard there is far looser even than our "reasonable articulable suspicion" required just to stop you here. Also notice that even that much looser requirement can be suspended on the order of a senior police officer, for nothing more than the fact that you are in the wrong place at the wrong time - not a restricted area, mind you, just someplace that any senior police officer determines warrants searching you. The point here wasn't whether they use the same legal terminology, it was the difference in the standard of suspicion required to stop and search you in public, and the fact that their standard is far weaker than our "probable cause" or even our "RAS" standard.highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:15 pmYes "probable cause" is a US legal term, in the UK it's "reasonable grounds" to stop and search. In Scotland it's slightly different.Evo1 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pmIt's worse than stop-and-frisk, because in the US you at least have to claim some level of suspicion to justify stopping someone. But in England there is no such legal protection. The police can stop and search you at anytime, for any reason, in public. I don't know if they're still doing it, but one version of this "stop and search" was that they would either stop a whole bus, or cordon off a whole block, and search everyone with wands or portable airport-style metal detectors. No probable cause, no reasonable articulable suspicion, just "you're in a designated stop-and-search zone, so bend over."highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:07 am It's "stop and frisk", the UK was really critical of that tactic in New York City. From reports it's juvenile gangs and not just knives, guns too.
And, yes, they have a gun problem too, despite an almost complete ban on private ownership. If you remember the riots all over England in 2011, they were kicked off because of the shooting death by police of a young black man. He was killed by a special antigun unit tasked specifically with going after guns in the black community. The man killed was accused of being involved in the illicit gun trade. Police said they found a starter pistol, converted to shoot live ammo, in a sock, but the investigation showed that he had not drawn a weapon or fired at police. So yes, they still have enough of a problem with guns that they have to have special armed units tasked specifically with investigating it.
https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-sto ... our-rights
Yes, the incident in 2011 was very controversial. The Independent Police Complaints Commission ultimately ruled for the Met constable. The major question was did the special police unit have to shoot the man, was he a threat to them?
And the point of the 2011 shooting wasn't whether it was warranted (obviously a lot of people didn't believe that it was), but the fact that such a unit is even needed or active in a developed European country that has almost no legal private gun ownership, and what little remains is under extreme restriction.