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Self driving car kills woman

1 by Eris
https://www.abc15.com/news/arizona-poli ... -overnight
Tempe police are investigating a deadly crash involving a self-driving Uber vehicle overnight.

The Uber vehicle was reportedly driving early Monday morning when a woman walking outside of the crosswalk was struck.

The woman was taken to the hospital where she died from her injuries.

Tempe Police says the vehicle was in autonomous mode at the time of the crash and a vehicle operator was also behind the wheel. No passengers were in the vehicle at the time.
I've seen articles before speculating about who will be held legally liable when a self driving car kills someone. We are about to find out for sure.
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Re: Self driving car kills woman

2 by SailDesign
Eris wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:17 pm https://www.abc15.com/news/arizona-poli ... -overnight
Tempe police are investigating a deadly crash involving a self-driving Uber vehicle overnight.

The Uber vehicle was reportedly driving early Monday morning when a woman walking outside of the crosswalk was struck.

The woman was taken to the hospital where she died from her injuries.

Tempe Police says the vehicle was in autonomous mode at the time of the crash and a vehicle operator was also behind the wheel. No passengers were in the vehicle at the time.
I've seen articles before speculating about who will be held legally liable when a self driving car kills someone. We are about to find out for sure.
If there was somebody behind the wheel, then I feel the argument is that they are "in control" of the car, in very much the same way a drunk can be "driving" when he's just sitting in the car with the keys in his pocket.....
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: Self driving car kills woman

3 by Bisbee
Dude... sucks to be him. Is the human driver going to claim the Nuremberg defense? I don't see how he's going to get out of this one untouched legally.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

6 by Bisbee
The video in the news link showed a bicyclist was struck. The damage to the vehicle shows it impacted with the rider on the front passenger side, consistent with if the woman was riding close to the sidewalk. There was enough force from the impact to crumple the hood of the car and launch the bicycle (and rider?) onto the sidewalk. Horrible.

I find it disengenous to report a "pedestrian" was hit while "crossing outside a crosswalk". This appears a bicyclist legally on the road in a state where cars are required by law to give 3' clearance when passing cyclists:

ARS §28-735. Overtaking bicycles; civil penalties

A. When overtaking and passing a bicycle proceeding in the same direction, a person driving a motor vehicle shall exercise due care by leaving a safe distance between the motor vehicle and the bicycle of not less than three feet until the motor vehicle is safely past the overtaken bicycle.

B. If a person violates this section and the violation results in a collision causing:

1. Serious physical injury as defined in section 13-105 to another person, the violater is subject to a civil penalty of up to five hundred dollars.
2. Death to another person, the violater is subject to a civil penalty of up to one thousand dollars.
Last edited by Bisbee on Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

7 by Bisbee
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"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
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Re: Self driving car kills woman

9 by Eris
Bisbee wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:34 pm I find it disengenous to report a "pedestrian" was hit while "crossing outside a crosswalk". This appears a bicyclist legally on the road in a state where cars are required by law to give 3' clearance when passing cyclists:
Probably just a result of initial confusion as to what happened. I bet the web article was written before the video.
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Re: Self driving car kills woman

10 by Bisbee
No, all the web articles mentioned the woman was killed and called her a pedestrian. The news report I pulled the stills from were saying they didn't yet know the condition of the bicyclist aside from the fact that the woman taken to the hospital.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

11 by DougMasters
Laws or not, liability or not, you gotta be some level of crazy to bike on regular streets around phoenix or the phoenix suburbs.

Drivers here are crazy, that and I think that since there are so many transplants people just drive so differently. In Cinci it seemed like so many people drove Cinci slow but in Cleveland so many more people had a more "pushing" way of driving. It wasn't perfect but more people seemed on the same page. Around here it just never feels safe. I don't know where Phoenix ranks in safe traffic but I don't feel like it's a safe place to be out and driving, walking, and especially biking on the roads.

I dunno if cyclists out here get ticketed for driving on sidewalks. But I'd risk that over ridingon the street.

Re: Self driving car kills woman

12 by Bisbee
It's probably ok to ride on the sidewalk in most of AZ. I know they passed a Tucson city ordinance prohibiting sidewalk riding but they also invested heavily to create special bike lanes throughout the city.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

15 by Bisbee
Except in this case the company itself was testing unproven technology. The fact that the driver was in the car at all was a state requirement for a human being to be sitting in the test vehicle, ostensibly to take over should a malfunction occurs in the system being tested.

That's why I suspect this guy isn't going to get off so lightly. Bet he never knew he was being set up as the fall-guy.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

16 by DougMasters
Quite right about this situation. my comment was a bit short sighted. Yes the self driving car aspect is certainly a big deal here.

That being said, im not sure the guy is "just" a fall guy. It's more likely he has some rational blame as well.

Approaching a biker, if you're paying attention, you know if they have enough space or not. If you're paying attention.

Re: Self driving car kills woman

17 by Bisbee
This happened in the early hours of the morning. The streets were still dark. Ol Jonny there probably was just warming up to his coffee and regretting he signed up for the night shift at $15/hour. But they promised him the job was easy, do nothing, just fulfilling a silly old technicality of outdated highway rules. He was participating in making history!

Who knows, Johnny may have been asleep in the back seats for hours...
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

18 by featureless
The odd thing is, if it wasn't a self driving car, it wouldn't be news. Cyclists get flattened by cars all the time, unfortunately. I commuted in San Francisco by bike (20 mile round trip) for 2.5 years. I'm still amazed I never got hit hard, only clipped once. I'm actually hopeful that auto cars will reduce ped and bike crashes. Human drivers, on the whole, fuckin suck.

Re: Self driving car kills woman

20 by trailmix
featureless wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:28 pm The odd thing is, if it wasn't a self driving car, it wouldn't be news. Cyclists get flattened by cars all the time, unfortunately. I commuted in San Francisco by bike (20 mile round trip) for 2.5 years. I'm still amazed I never got hit hard, only clipped once. I'm actually hopeful that auto cars will reduce ped and bike crashes. Human drivers, on the whole, fuckin suck.
Totally agree. Easiest way to get away with murder is to hit them with your car. Happens all the time and drivers just say "didn't see em". There will be an investigation and in the end the pedestrian will be blamed for wearing dark clothing or something equally ignorant.

Re: Self driving car kills woman

21 by Bisbee
Update... self driving car actually recognized a person was on the road before the accident but couldn't stop the car because the emergency braking system was disconnected! Human driver claimed to be looking at the computer rather than the road as her defense.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... lled-woman
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Self driving car kills woman

23 by YankeeTarheel
koolaidblue wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:39 pm My wife thinks I'm nuts (she's probably right) but I even put tape covering the reverse facing camera on my phone. I don't trust technology. I will end up being like will Smith in I,robot
So far, you're fitting in just fine here! :laugh:
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Self driving car kills woman

24 by HuckleberryFun
YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:45 pm
koolaidblue wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:39 pm My wife thinks I'm nuts (she's probably right) but I even put tape covering the reverse facing camera on my phone. I don't trust technology. I will end up being like will Smith in I,robot
So far, you're fitting in just fine here! :laugh:
You mean the technophobe detective with the robotic arm? That’s some beaucoup therapy sessions right there.
Fitting in fine. Healthy paranoia builds bridges. (Passing ‘round the bonding tinfoil)
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