The Liberal Gun Club Forum

SilasSoule wrote:Arizona man who handed his guns over to police “to stop mass shootings” is a dual American-British citizen. “Pring said he could have pawned the guns for a few thousand dollars, but he hoped to inspire others by giving them up.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/arizon ... -him-dead/

Was he thinking about shooting someone? I’m sure his guns are safe with the cops – they never shoot anyone.

Wabatuckian wrote:I work with former (recovering) addicts/drug users.


Josh

A note containing handwritten numbers for wind, trajectory, and distance was discovered by Steven Paddock's body inside the Las Vegas hotel room where he took his life last Sunday after slaughtering 58 people and injuring hundreds, officials have confirmed. Law enforcement officials briefed on the investigation confirmed to ABC News on Sunday that the note found on Paddock's hexagon-shaped nightstand contained such numerical figures. The note's details, first reported by 60 Minutes, were revealed by Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Officer Dave Newton, who said he spotted it resting by Paddock's "shooting platform."

"I could see on it he had written the distance, the elevation he was on, the drop of what his bullet was going to be for the crowd," Newton said in a clip from the the episode, which will be televised on Sunday night. "So he had had that written down, and figured out so he would know where to shoot to hit his targets from there." Pressed about what the meaning of the numbers were, Newton said, Paddock "must have done the calculations online or something, to figure out what his altitude was going to be, and how high up he was -- how far out the crowd was going to be, and what -- at that distance -- and what the drop of his bullet was going to be. "He hadn't written out the calculations -- all he had was written out [was] the final numbers that were on the sheet," he added.

The note's contents give a clearer picture of Paddock's planning before he starting firing on 22,000 concert goers attending the third day of the Route 91 Harvest Festival along the Las Vegas Strip last Sunday. Sources have told ABC News that Paddock, a 64-year-old retiree, likely had severe mental illness which appears so far to have remained undiagnosed. Authorities who have logged hundreds of interviews suggest that though Paddock was a successful businessman, he struggled interacting with people. The property owner and high-stakes video poker player is described as standoff-ish, disconnected, and a man who had difficulty establishing and maintaining meaningful relationships. He reportedly was exhibiting many antisocial traits that are typical of past mass shooters, according to one source who spoke to ABC News anonymously.

In addition to killing 58 people in his attack, Paddock injured at least 489 others before taking his own life. Paddock was known for playing gambling games in casinos for hours at a time, with little or no human contact. Profilers and behavioral scientists this week were brought in to examine witness interviews and investigative summaries to better understand what drove the Mesquite, Nevada, man to execute and injure so many in such a calculated and detached fashion. They are particularly focused on the period of September to October 2016, when Paddock began buying 30-plus guns, in concentration -- most of which were rifles, ABC News has learned.

Sources also said that the gunman's gambling wages went up during that time, and he completed computer searches where he was looking at a lot of different hotel venues -- some apparently just to research, some of which he actually traveled to. Police, according to multiple law enforcement officials, still have found no definitive evidence to prove Paddock had an accomplice, and have not nailed down a definitive motive.

The Las Vegas shooting — the deadliest shooting in modern US history — is forcing hotels to reconsider their responsibility in keeping guests safe. "What happened on Sunday is sort of a larger wake-up call for the industry to take a step back and ask themselves: 'What about my city? What am I doing to make sure that ... my guests are safe and secure?'" Deanna Ting, hospitality editor at the travel-industry intelligence company Skift, told Business Insider.

Gunman Stephen Paddock stockpiled weapons in his hotel room for three days before firing from the windows of his suite on the 32nd floor into the crowd of 22,000 people across the street, killing 58 people and wounding almost 500 others. The Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, as well as other properties owned by MGM Resorts — including the Bellagio, Monte Carlo, and the MGM Grand — have increased security levels, according to a spokesperson from the company. The Wynn Resort in Las Vegas added new security measures after the shooting, scanning guests with metal detectors and putting bags through X-ray machines.

Many of these heightened security measures will likely be phased out in the coming months. Some things — such as metal detectors and X-ray machines — simply pose too much inconvenience to guests to become common in the hotel industry. However, according to legal experts, hotels may be forced to take more preventative measures if mass shooting incidents do not decrease in the US. "It becomes more and more foreseeable if you operate certain types of venues, those venues will be seen as opportunities for mass shootings," said Heidi Li Feldman, a professor at Georgetown Law School.

In other words, hotels and other entertainment spaces where horrific mass shootings have occurred may not just need to beef up safety measures to soothe customers. They may need to add new measures to prevent shootings because, if they don't, the hotel could be seen as legally liable. "Foreseeability is one of the key components of liability," Dick Hudak, managing partner of the Resort Security consulting firm, said. Experts are split on what exactly the best preventative measures are for hotels to take. Hyper-visible measures such as X-ray machines and other screenings when guests check in are helpful for creating the atmosphere of safety after a tragedy. In some other countries, such as Indonesia and Israel, where hotels have been targeted in bombings, such security has become the norm.

In the US, however, there are no common security standards across the hospitality industry. Generally, the trend has been to prioritize convenience, not increased security. Hudak says that security experts hate tech innovations like mobile phone room keys. While they make the guest's experience more seamless, cutting down on the time that customers spend interacting with staff means fewer chances to pick up on crucial red flags.

Eris wrote:Let's be sure we aren't demonizing people who take psych meds. Most people who take them are helped by them, not hurt.

SilasSoule wrote:

Eris wrote:Let's be sure we aren't demonizing people who take psych meds. Most people who take them are helped by them, not hurt.

My point is that it's extremely unusual for people to commit mass murders (unless they are being ordered to do so by an authority figure). Maybe the drugs are partially responsible. What are the chances so many of these guys, who belong to an extremely tiny subset of the population (mass murderers) just happened to be taking psychotropic medication? Most people don't have this kind of extreme reaction, but it could be possible that some people do. It beats the theory going around among some liberals that all men, especially white ones, change into mass murderers like vampires when they have a firearm, and the more powerful the weapon the more likely it is to drive them into homicidal insanity. Unless they are wearing a uniform, which magically protects them.

He was a nocturnal creature who gambled all night and slept all day. He took Valium at times for anxiousness, and had the doctor who prescribed it to him on retainer. He wagered up to a million dollars a night, but wandered around glitzy Las Vegas casinos in sweatpants and flip-flops, and carried his own drink into the high rollers' area because he didn't want to tip the waitresses too much.

This was Stephen Paddock as he saw himself four years before he opened fire on a crowd of concertgoers, killing at least 58 people in the worst mass shooting in modern American history. The details are contained in a 97-page court deposition obtained exclusively by CNN. Paddock was deposed October 29, 2013 as part of a civil lawsuit against the Cosmopolitan Hotel, where he slipped and fell on a walkway in 2011.

What otherwise would have been a mundane proceeding offers fresh details about Paddock's life and habits -- for the first time -- from the killer's own mouth. The document has been turned over to the FBI, according to sources. Paddock's testimony offers little insight into what could have prompted last week's attack. He said that he had no mental health issues, no history of addiction and no criminal record. He said he was prescribed Valium "for anxiousness" by Nevada internist Steven P. Winkler. It was unclear how often he took the drug, but he estimated that he had 10 or 15 pills remaining in a bottle of 60 that were prescribed a year and a half earlier.

Rage, aggressiveness and irritability are among the possible side effects of taking diazepam -- better known as Valium, according to a manufacturer of the drug. It is not known when Paddock last took the drug. The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported that Dr. Winkler prescribed him diazepam in June, based on information contained in Nevada's prescription drug monitoring database. CNN could not independently confirm that information. Paddock was asked whether he had a good relationship with the doctor who prescribed him the pills. "He's like on retainer, I call it, I guess," Paddock said of Winkler. "It means I pay a fee yearly ... I have good access to him."

Winkler did not respond to an email or phone call seeking comment for this story. Reporters were turned away by a security guard after seeking access to the gated community where he lives. In the deposition, Paddock said he had a concealed weapons license in Texas, but, other than that, there was no discussion of guns. Paddock described himself as something of a rolling stone who split his time among California, Nevada, Texas and Florida, traveling at one point "maybe upwards of three weeks out of a month."

His de facto home was often one of the casinos, where he stayed in rooms that were provided for free "95% of the time." Hotels often provide free rooms and amenities to big gamblers to entice them back to their casinos. At the Cosmopolitan, he said he had opened a bottle of sake in his room, possibly on the night of the incident, but did not drink much. A lawyer asked him to explain why he would open the beverage but not drink it. Paddock explained that everything in his room was "comped" or free, "so, yes, I would open all sorts of things."

"And if you aren't comped at casinos, you wouldn't understand," he added. He said he wandered about in black Nike sweat pants and had a favorite pair of size 13 black flip-flops -- the pair he was wearing on the night of his accident at the Cosmopolitan in October 2011. He was on his way to the high-limit room when he slipped on some liquid and fell. He testified that he hurt his hamstring, which he said resulted in a lingering injury. An arbitrator ultimately ruled in the Cosmopolitan's favor, according to two sources.

Some of the testimony centered on his gambling. He described himself as being, at one point, the "biggest video poker player in the world." "How do I know that?" Paddock asked rhetorically. "Because I know some of the video poker players that play big. Nobody played as much and as long as I did." At the height of his play in 2006, he testified, "I averaged 14 hours a day, 365 days a year." "I'll gamble all night," he said. "I sleep during the day."

Asked if he ever visited the hotel pool, Paddock replied, "I do not do sun." Paddock said he rarely drank alcohol when he gambled, because "at the stakes I play, you want to have all your wits about you, or as much wit as I have." "Each time I push the button, it will range from $100 to $1,350," he said. A lawyer asked how much he could end up betting on a given night. "A million dollars," Paddock replied. "That's a lot of money," the lawyer said. "No, it's not," Paddock said.

The deposition also offered some clarity on basic biographical information about the enigmatic killer. He was "raised mostly in California," attending high school in the Sun Valley section of Los Angeles and college at what would become Cal State Northridge. He worked for a time as an IRS agent, then began to invest in real estate. Paddock did not detail the initial source of his wealth. He at times came off as arrogant and sarcastic during the deposition, the transcript suggests. At one point he was asked whether he was sober on the night of the accident. "I was my normal happy-go-lucky self," he said. "Perfectly sober."

Eris wrote:Let's be sure we aren't demonizing people who take psych meds. Most people who take them are helped by them, not hurt.

lurker wrote:y'all....
i just don't know what to say.
i love you guys, but damn, just... damn.

sikacz wrote: Lurker, I read your post on the drugs you were prescribed. Did the doctor explain possible side effects and what to do if you noticed unusual behavior? If so did you explain any of these to family or friends that might be able to help?

Tedzilla wrote:It seems Steven Paddock shot a Mandalay Bay security worker 6 minutes before he opened fire on the concert goers...
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/1 ... e-killing/
30 min Sandy Hook, 2 1/2 hr Pulse, 1 hr 21 min Mandalay Bay. SWAT Teams are real bad asses shooting unarmed dentists accused of sports betting in Fairfax VA or shooting the Mayor's Labradors in Berwyn Heights MD, but if someone might shot back... no so much.

highdesert wrote:

Democrats worried that if there wasn’t quick action, pro-gun rights groups would pressure Republicans to withhold their support. “My only pessimism comes in our failure to address the terror watch list in the wake of Orlando. That seemed like no brainer just like bump stocks seem like a no-brainer,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.). “And ultimately we couldn’t get there but you’ve got to walk before you can run and if we could find some small agreement on bump stocks, that’s meaningful progress.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/0 ... ors-243453Wonder if a bill that banned bump stocks but deregulated suppressors would pass with 60 votes

Washington (CNN)Sen. Chris Murphy said Sunday he supported narrow legislation banning bump fire stocks and viewed such a bill as a first step on gun control.

Murphy stressed that he viewed a ban as an initial move on gun control and said Congress should mandate background checks for all gun purchases.

"That would be the clear next step," Murphy said. "That should be our North Star."

What we know is that states that have tougher gun laws that keep criminals from getting guns, that keep those dangerous weapons like ar-15s out of the hands of civilians have dramatically lower rates of gun violence.

So yes, maybe getting assault weapons off the street would have simply lowered the number of people who died, but that would have been consolation, would be consolation to many of the families' victims who have would have their loved ones still alive.

But maybe he would have never walked into that hotel if he only had a pistol--if he didn't have all these complicated, tactical semi-automatic and automatic weapons.

[Los Angeles] When we were at Francis Polytechnic High in Sun Valley, Steve Paddock and I were required to take electrical shop class. At Poly and our junior high, we were required to take metal shop so we could work the drill presses at the GM plant. We took drafting. Drafting like in "blueprint drawing."

Paddock. Palast. We sat next to each other at those drafting tables with our triangular rulers and #2 pencils so we could get jobs at Lockheed as draftsman drawing blueprints of fighter jets. Or do tool-and-dye cutting to make refrigerator handles at GM where they assembled Frigidaire refrigerators and Chevys.

But we weren’t going to fly the fighter jets. Somewhere at Phillips Andover Academy, a dumbbell with an oil well for a daddy was going to go to Yale and then fly our fighter jets over Texas. We weren’t going to go to Yale. We were going to go to Vietnam. Then, when we came back, if we still had two hands, we went to GM or Lockheed.

(It’s no coincidence that much of the student population at our school was Hispanic.)

But if you went to "Bevvie" - Beverly Hills High - or Hollywood High, you didn’t take metal shop. You took Advanced Placement French. You took Advanced Placement Calculus. We didn’t have Advanced Placement French. We didn’t have French anything. We weren’t Placed, and we didn’t Advance.

Steve was a math wizard. He should have gone to UCLA, to Stanford. But our classes didn’t qualify him for anything other than LA Valley College and Cal State Northridge. Any dumbbell could get in. And it was nearly free. That’s where Steve was expected to go, and he went with his big math-whiz brain.
And then Steve went to Lockheed, like we were supposed to. Until Lockheed shut down plants in 1988. Steve left, took the buy-out.

And after NAFTA, GM closed too.

Land of Opportunity? Well, tell me: who gets those opportunities?

Some of you can and some of you can’t imagine a life where you just weren’t give a fair chance. Where the smarter you are, the more painful it gets, because you have your face pressed against the window, watching THEM. THEY got the connections to Stanford. THEY get the gold mine. WE get the shaft.

This is where Paddock and Palast were bred: Sun Valley, the anus of Los Angeles. Literally. It’s where the sewerage plant is. It’s in a trench below the Hollywood Hills, where the smog settles into a kind of puke yellow soup. Here’s where LA dumps its urine and the losers they only remember when they need cheap labor and cheap soldiers when the gusanos don’t supply enough from Mexico.

I’ll take you to Sun Valley. It’s in my film, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. In the movie, a kind of dream scene, the actress Shailene Woodley takes me back to my family’s old busted home in the weeds and then down San Fernando Road, near Steve's place. Take a look, America. Along the tracks that once led in to the GM plant, you see a bunch of campers that the union men bought for vacations. Now they live in them.

No, Steve’s brain was too big to end up on the tracks. He lived in empty apartments in crappy buildings he bought, then in a barren tract house outside Reno. I laugh when they say he was "rich." He wanted to be THEM, to have their stuff. He got close.

It’s reported that Steve was a "professional gambler." That’s another laugh. He was addicted to numbing his big brain by sitting 14 hours a day in the dark in front of video poker machines. He was a loser. Have you ever met a gambler who said they were a Professional Loser?

It’s fair to ask me: Why didn’t I end up in a hotel room with a bump-stock AR-15 and 5,000 rounds of high velocity bullets?

Because I have a job, a career, an OBSESSION: to hunt down THEM, the daddy-pampered pricks who did this to us, the grinning billionaire jackals that make a profit off the slow decomposition of the lives I grew up with.

But I’m telling you, that I know it’s a very fine line, and lots of crazy luck, that divided my path from Paddock’s.

Dear Reader: The publication that pulled this story at the last moment was plain scared–that they’d be accused of approving murder.

Paddock slaughtered good people, coldly, with intense cruelty, destroying lives and hundreds of families forever. If you think I’m making up some excuse for him, then I give up.

But also this: The editor of the Beverly Hills-based publication, a Stanford grad, could not understand that, just like veterans of the Vietnam war who suffer from PTSD even today, so too, losers of the class war can be driven mad by a PTSD that lingers, that gnaws away, their whole lives.

What happens to a dream deferred? Does it ...fester like a sore? Does it stink like rotten meat? Sag...like a heavy load?

Or does it explode?

Steve, you created more horrors than your cornered life could ever justify.

But, I just have to tell you, Steve: I get it.

Bisbee wrote: -Greg Palast

Leeps wrote: 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' and 'it's all about perseverance and determination' or 'there's no excuse to act like an animal'.

Leeps wrote: Somehow though people seem to grasp real quick that children who are bullied become bullies, but that dynamic becomes lost when you try to extend it past schoolyard recess.

Because I have a job, a career, an OBSESSION: to hunt down THEM, the daddy-pampered pricks who did this to us, the grinning billionaire jackals that make a profit off the slow decomposition of the lives I grew up with.