Re: Charlottesville
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:35 am
Headline - "GOP fears damage to brand from Charlottesville" - we can only hope so. 
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It's not likely that "T voters" and "think" should appear in the same line.Bacchus wrote:From Highdesert's post above:
Can someone explain this to me? My gut tells me this is hogwash, that nazis in this country are products of the right and that the perception of Trump voters that as many or more come from the left is the result of the insane alt-right alternate facts media machinery, but honestly I have no idea of the political make-up of neo nazi scum. Or maybe I'm afraid that if it is true, I'll have to just fling myself over a cliff....the majority of Trump voters think that white nationalism is equally as common or more common on the left.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalismStarting in the 1960s, white nationalism grew in the US as the conservative movement developed in mainstream society.

I thought a group of Trump supporters was called an Idiocy.CDFingers wrote:
CDFingers
They also disputed his claim the state police were outgunned, which was edited out of this NYT story:Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe revealed on Monday that the far right activists had hidden caches of weapons around the city. “They had battering rams and we had picked up different weapons that they had stashed around the city,” McAuliffe told civil rights campaigner DeRay Mckesson on his podcast Pod Save the People.
With a genuine tragedy working politically in McAuliffe's favor, embellishing should not have been necessary.Governor McAuliffe also defended the police response, saying, “It’s easy to criticize, but I can tell you this, 80 percent of the people here had semiautomatic weapons.
“You saw the militia walking down the street, you would have thought they were an army,” he added. “I was just talking to the State Police upstairs; they had better equipment than our State Police had,” he said, referring to the militia members. “And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”
Rep. Keith EllisonVerified account
@keithellison
Says VA Gov, 80% of Racists at Charlottesville had semi-auto assault rifles. Armed militias rivaling state power.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mit ... mg00000009Former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney called on President Donald Trump to “acknowledge that he was wrong” and apologize for his remarks about the violent Charlottesville rally.
In a Facebook post Friday, Romney urged Trump to “state forcefully and unequivocally that racists are 100% to blame for the murder and violence in Charlottesville.” He asked the president to “definitively repudiate” the support of David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan leader who thanked Trump for condemning “leftist terrorists” in his remarks on the events in Virginia.
“Whether he intended to or not, what [Trump] communicated caused racists to rejoice, minorities to weep, and the vast heart of America to mourn,” Romney wrote.
Romney emphasized that Trump’s hesitation to explicitly condemn white supremacist groups could be a national security issue.
“Our allies around the world are stunned and our enemies celebrate; America’s ability to help secure a peaceful and prosperous world is diminished,” Romney wrote. “And who would want to come to the aid of a country they perceive as racist if ever the need were to arise, as it did after 9/11?”
He also argued Trump should be setting a better example for children across America.
projection, i think. and denial. "they" MUST be at least as bad as "us"."the majority of Trump voters think that white nationalism is equally as common or more common on the left."
That's a great idea from a country that has a lot of experience with Nazis.HuckleberryFun wrote: They turned the march into a mock sporting event. Someone stenciled onto the street “start,” a halfway mark and a finish line, as if it were a race. Colorful signs with silly slogans festooned the route. “If only the Führer knew!” read one. “Mein Mampf!” (my munch) read another that hung over a table of bananas. A sign at the end of the route thanked the marchers for their contribution to the anti-Nazi cause — €10,000 (close to $12,000). And someone showered the marchers with rainbow confetti at the finish line. The approach has spread to several other German towns and one in Sweden (where it was billed as Nazis Against Nazis).
Agreed! We can also participate in their chants with "white flour" "tight showers" "wife power"...gleefully stolen from a song by Dave LaMotte about clowns counter protesting a Klan rally.highdesert wrote:That's a great idea from a country that has a lot of experience with Nazis.HuckleberryFun wrote: They turned the march into a mock sporting event. Someone stenciled onto the street “start,” a halfway mark and a finish line, as if it were a race. Colorful signs with silly slogans festooned the route. “If only the Führer knew!” read one. “Mein Mampf!” (my munch) read another that hung over a table of bananas. A sign at the end of the route thanked the marchers for their contribution to the anti-Nazi cause — €10,000 (close to $12,000). And someone showered the marchers with rainbow confetti at the finish line. The approach has spread to several other German towns and one in Sweden (where it was billed as Nazis Against Nazis).
curtism1234 wrote:Agreedfeatureless wrote:Sure, it takes two to tango. But only one group of those anarchists promote genocide. And they must be denounced. If the president is incapable, the people will (and did). Free speech is free speech until it crosses the line of death threats (genocide). Fuck trump and fuck Nazis and fuck any who support white supremacists and all that they stand for. You do not evoke with a swastika unless you are prepared to feel the consequences of that action.curtism1234 wrote:While not in any way presidential, I think Donald Trump is actually correct (it pains me to say that) in stating both sides are anarchists and asking where does this stop.
(not meaning to attack you here, just extremely agitated and this is a personal line for me beyond which there are consequences when encountered)
Yes, and also this - a trans-woman showed tremendous courage and leaned-in instead of turning away. She drew her handgun and chased after the coward that drove into the crowd: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ottesvilleAndyH wrote:Cool words and stuff, but can you please explain to me how 'we are a nation of laws' answers my questions? So: If someone breaks into my house to kill my son, I can or can't shoot him/her without being a vigilante because nation of laws? If some idiot terrorist runs a car down the street into a crowd we have to stand quietly and watch because there might be a law against taking action? No. Just no.curtism1234 wrote:God I hate to keep quoting Donald Trump...We are a nation of laws.AndyH wrote:
What's the purpose of being a citizen? What are our duties and responsibilities to our society, to each other, and to our country? When a CCL holder comes to the aid of a police officer being beaten by a criminal, is that citizen a vigilante? When a citizen stands up to thug attacking someone they don't know are they a vigilante? Or are they an active, caring, citizen? If an enemy lands on our beaches intending to overthrow our society, do we take arms and fight back, or do we grab our smart phone and try to call our representative? How about if someone's breaking into our house?
Citizens have to obey the laws on the books even when we don't agree with them; that is the only thing that keeps this train rolling down the tracks. As I said in my original statement, you can legally fight to get them legally changed. If you feel that is not an option, then I guess you got to do what you got to do.
If you lose, just don't expect a memorial![]()
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If nothing else, it's called necessity or competing harms. There's also the duty to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from all enemies, foreign and domestic, though not all are bound by that, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competing_harms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_(criminal_law)I'm not an attorney and didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, so do your own due diligence before deciding to meet insurrection with another round of drinks.In the criminal law of many nations, necessity may be either a possible justification or an exculpation for breaking the law. Defendants seeking to rely on this defense argue that they should not be held liable for their actions as a crime because their conduct was necessary to prevent some greater harm and when that conduct is not excused under some other more specific provision of law such as self defense.
Samuel Adams wrote:The liberties of our Country, the freedom of our civil constitution are worth defending at all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have receiv'd them as a fair Inheritance from our worthy Ancestors: They purchas'd them for us with toil and danger and expence of treasure and blood; and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle; or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Of the latter we are in most danger at present: Let us therefore be aware of it. Let us contemplate our forefathers and posterity; and resolve to maintain the rights bequeath'd to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. — Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event.
Essay, written under the pseudonym "Candidus," in The Boston Gazette (14 October 1771), later published in The Life and Public Services of Samuel Adams (1865) by William Vincent Wells, p. 425
This, to the max. Every single T voter should be so embarrassed about what they did that they donate to their local mosque. Shame is a powerful emotion when they know they did a shitty thoughtless thing.shinzen wrote:Love it. Mock them relentlessly.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.htmlMuch of the punditry clucked last week over which prominent Republicans dared to criticize Trump by name, and which (including Senate leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan) did not.
Far more significant was the less-noticed fact that almost no Republicans spoke out in defense of their party’s president. Fox News Channel’s Bret Baier said his producers spent a full day searching for a GOP senator who would stand up for Trump. There weren’t any.
“They are running away from him,” the GOP advisor said. “They are going to try to create some distance. They don’t want Trump to become their brand.”
But that’s hard to do. Most American voters consider the president the chief spokesman for his party. Trump, angry and erratic, is redefining the image of the GOP, whether other Republicans like it or not.
As I wrote last week, I accepted an invitation from the Charlottesville clergy to come to their city the weekend of the Unite the Right rally, to join them in witness against white supremacy, Neo-naziism, racism, and associated evils, which are counter to both the Christian gospel and American democracy.Free speech is a protected right and we were not protesting against the rally’s right to speak; rather, we were using our right to free speech to bear witness for a better message of conciliation and peace, and we were supporting the clergy of Charlottesville to stand against the incursion of white supremacists like Richard Spencer.
Here are some initial reflections based on my experience – on the white supremacists and their message, on the clergy and faith community, on the other anti-racism protestors, on the police, and on next steps.
This is a link to a short video clip of a statement by the HS history teacher of the kid that killed Heather Heyer and injured 19 others.On the White Supremacists, Neo-nazis, and their allies: First, I was impressed by their organization. They showed up in organized caravans of rented white vans, pick-up trucks, and other vehicles, and then quickly lined up with flags and started marching. I don’t know what app they were using, but it worked. (After the state of emergency was declared, the organization seemed less effective, with more confusion and milling around.) Second, they were young. The majority, it seemed to me, were in their twenties and thirties, mostly men, but a few women. I was told by one protestor that many of the older leaders were retired military.
Ex-teacher of James Alex Fields Jr. says student had neo-Nazi beliefs
"My first instinct is I failed."
Video of the attack on Deandre Harris in the parking garage next to the police station.Fight broke out. Nazis beat black kid w/sticks at end. I kick one in back 2 help & he runs after me. Kid is safe but bloody #Charlottesville