The Liberal Gun Club Forum

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/ ... index.html

So here's a question ... Hanlon's Razor? Or was this Hillary baiting them? She and her staff are savvy as all get out. This absolutely sounds like something she'd do.

I guess Hanlon's Razor should apply. It's just that's it's so suspicious.

Wurble wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/ ... index.html
So here's a question ... Hanlon's Razor? Or was this Hillary baiting them?

Sadly, it appears to be another case of stupidity rather than conspiracy.

The DNC overreacted, though. Now Hillary has a chance to repay Bernie for the support he gave her on the email crap. Her best move would be a gracious call on the DNC to reinstate the Sanders campaign with full rights to DNC data.

Stupid on the DNC. Also don't think Hillary will be that nice.

The DNC seems to have been taken over by the old PUMA gang out for revenge. I guess they didn't learn anything from the RNC putting up a meh candidate because "it's their turn". We'll see...

sikacz wrote:Stupid on the DNC. Also don't think Hillary will be that nice.

Maybe not, but it would be the smart move. it sure wouldn't hurt her to make a friendly, gracious gesture. If things go the way she expects, she's gonna need the support of Bernie's backers.

Of course the DNC is going to do everything it can do to insure its choice of candidates, Hillary, gets the nomination.

Paco wrote:

sikacz wrote:Stupid on the DNC. Also don't think Hillary will be that nice.

Maybe not, but it would be the smart move. it sure wouldn't hurt her to make a friendly, gracious gesture. If things go the way she expects, she's gonna need the support of Bernie's backers.

Agreed.

Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disasterous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

senorgrand wrote:Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disasterous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

Not saying I'd like the potential results of that line of action, but the freak out from the Democratic establishment would be monumentally enjoyable to watch.

senorgrand wrote:Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disastrous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

Very interesting idea. The whispered threat alone should bring about some dramatic results.

Although I think Clinton is plenty savvy enough to give Bernie a pass without turning him into a martyr. In fact, with the right move, she could make herself look like she's gracious, kind, and a unifier. In that sense, Bernie's staff has handed her a chance to pull a hat trick.

But your idea is intriguing at this point. If the DNC doesn't rescind fast, and Clinton doesn't help out, it's a way for Sanders to throw some heavy weight. Nice.

I'll be surprised, though, if the thing isn't settled asap.

Does this mean Sanders is now an Independent?

dougb wrote:Does this mean Sanders is now an Independent?

Not yet. He will quickly appeal the DNC sanction, but DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz is hardly an unbiased arbiter. She's clearly all in for Clinton, and her statements about what the Sanders staffers did or didn't do have been divisive and quite possibly inaccurate.

If Wasserman Schultz is the ventriloquist dummy for the Clinton camp, and this is how they'll handle it, then senorgrand's suggestion is already spot on.

For the moment, though, the Sanders campaign is fighting back within the Dem Party.

Jeff Weaver, Sanders' campaign head: "We are announcing today that if the DNC continues to hold our data hostage, and continues to try to attack the heart and soul of our grassroots campaign, we will be in federal court this afternoon seeking immediate relief."

Paco wrote:

senorgrand wrote:Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disastrous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

Very interesting idea. The whispered threat alone should bring about some dramatic results.

Although I think Clinton is plenty savvy enough to give Bernie a pass without turning him into a martyr. In fact, with the right move, she could make herself look like she's gracious, kind, and a unifier. In that sense, Bernie's staff has handed her a chance to pull a hat trick.

But your idea is intriguing at this point. If the DNC doesn't rescind fast, and Clinton doesn't help out, it's a way for Sanders to throw some heavy weight. Nice.

I'll be surprised, though, if the thing isn't settled asap.

Agreed on all counts. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer should be Clinton's motto.

modernhamlet wrote:

senorgrand wrote:Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disasterous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

Not saying I'd like the potential results of that line of action, but the freak out from the Democratic establishment would be monumentally enjoyable to watch.

Could be a much more interesting election with Bernie/Hillary/Trump/Whatever the hell the RNC finally puts up. Two real independents and two establishment candidates. The Party Overlords would go into full panic mode.

shinzen wrote:

modernhamlet wrote:

senorgrand wrote:Clinton should slow play this hand. Turning Bernie into a martyr would be disasterous for her.

If the DNC plays hardball, Bernie should tell them to fuck off and claim the nomination is in the bag. That move would be worth more than the data file at this point. Then start forming committees to get bernie on the ballot in key swing states as an independent candidate.

Not saying I'd like the potential results of that line of action, but the freak out from the Democratic establishment would be monumentally enjoyable to watch.

Could be a much more interesting election with Bernie/Hillary/Trump/Whatever the hell the RNC finally puts up. Two real independents and two establishment candidates. The Party Overlords would go into full panic mode.

Can you imagine the campaign dynamics? Almost every state would be in play, at least between 2 of the 4 candidates. And in some cases 3 or 4 of them...

Clinton and Bernie would have to fight it out in California, NY, etc.
Trump and (let's just say Rubio) would have to fight it out in South Carolina, Oklahoma, etc.
I don't even know what states like Ohio, North Carolina, or Florida would look like!

A boy can dream...

Bernie will grin and bear it! He will state his version of things, file a lawsuit, and move on.
He might drop out without the database, but he will NOT run Independent. He said he wouldn't, and he is a man of his word.

rockyriverleather wrote:Bernie will grin and bear it! He will state his version of things, file a lawsuit, and move on.
He might drop out without the database, but he will NOT run Independent. He said he wouldn't, and he is a man of his word.

Agreed that he's a man of his word, but I doubt he's grinning.

The DNC, particularly its chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, have made statements today that are so tilted toward Clinton, so inflammatory, and so far outside the bounds of neutrality, that it does seem like a serious attempt to savage the Sanders campaign.

I wonder if Sanders would consider it a broken promise if he left a party that stabbed him in the back. He would, I'm sure, hold off if he reached the certain conclusion that an independent run would lead to a right-wing victory.

But much is in play at the moment, due in great part to Wasserman Schultz's clumsily biased mishandling of the situation.

rockyriverleather wrote:Bernie will grin and bear it! He will state his version of things, file a lawsuit, and move on.
He might drop out without the database, but he will NOT run Independent. He said he wouldn't, and he is a man of his word.

Having access to the databases is one of the key benefits to being a democratic candidate. Denying access is basically the same as the DNC excommunitcating you from the party. Bernie said he wouldn't leave the party to run...he never talked about being kicked-out.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-d ... nton-data/

Updated, 1:51 p.m. | A fight between the campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders and the Democratic Party’s leadership went public on Friday, on the eve of the year’s final primary debate, as the Sanders camp accused the party of actively trying to help Hillary Clinton.

The Party never wanted him. The DNC and its media surrogates have always been in the tank for Hillary. Now they want Sanders out.

This is bad news for clinton. Putting bernie on an independent track would be disasterous, esp if she ends-up against someone like Rubio.

senorgrand wrote:This is bad news for clinton. Putting bernie on an independent track would be disastrous, esp if she ends-up against someone like Rubio.

Agreed. And senorgrand's earlier point about making Sanders a martyr was dead on. But weirdly that's exactly what Clinton's DNC surrogates are doing.

Just why Wasserman Schultz is still party chair is now clear. That she is not competent to wield a political assassin's blade is equally clear.

Instead of being nowhere in sight when the body hits the floor, she and the DNC are already covered with political blood.

She is painting bernie into a box...go home or go independent. Maybe bernie will fold. If he doesn't, clinton is hosed. Even if bernie doesn't run, if 20% of his supporters stay home in November, clinton could be toast.

Not surprised at this. Bernie terrifies many with money.

CDFingers

As Bernie filed a lawsuit over being blocked from the data, the DNC has backed down and and allow him access to his data.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ber ... e?b14np14i

I used to like Wasserman-Schultz but this has given me a bad taste.