The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Seeing it Saturday night. Can't wait...

If you have children that never saw 4-6, they should watch those before seeing the movie. It will cut down on some of the confusion.

KVoimakas wrote:I just came out of the theater. No spoilers here.

Star Wars is extremely special to me. I've spent more time reading the Expanded Universe (now defunct) books/comics/graphic novels, watching the movies, playing the video games, and just talking Star Wars in general than anything else. Motorcycle riding? Shooting? Video games of the non-Star Wars variety? None of them even come close.

I'd rather watch the prequels than this movie. This movie makes me want to take all of the last 2 1/2 decades of Star Wars stuff I've accumulated, put it on the lawn, and set it on fire.

Thank you George. You sold this to Disney and they fucked this up even more than the prequels did.

Whoa, that bad huh? Did JJ pull a "Into Darkness" again?

pdoggeth wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:I just came out of the theater. No spoilers here.

Star Wars is extremely special to me. I've spent more time reading the Expanded Universe (now defunct) books/comics/graphic novels, watching the movies, playing the video games, and just talking Star Wars in general than anything else. Motorcycle riding? Shooting? Video games of the non-Star Wars variety? None of them even come close.

I'd rather watch the prequels than this movie. This movie makes me want to take all of the last 2 1/2 decades of Star Wars stuff I've accumulated, put it on the lawn, and set it on fire.

Thank you George. You sold this to Disney and they fucked this up even more than the prequels did.

Whoa, that bad huh? Did JJ pull a "Into Darkness" again?

Yep. For me anyway.

I'll note without comment that it's running 95% on Rotten Tomatoes. A very good sign.

when it hits late-night tv.

Force Awakens problems without giving out spoilers.

Main character is so Mary-Sue it is beyond belief.
Supporting role- Bad guy turned good guy is poorly written and not really relevant to the plot.
Notable character that looks like "Professor Snake, the early years"
Very limited explanation of what has transpired over the last 30 years. Even if you watched episodes 4-5-6, you still had basic questions that needed to be answered/
Overall editing- It seems like they very much edited down the original story. Some of the dialogue of the "old cast" did not seem to actually fit the situation that was transpiring.

Good points-

Visually it was a great movie. The fights were not so cluttered with extra "stuff" compared to episodes 2&3.
The desert scenes were well written and thought out.

KVoimakas wrote:

pdoggeth wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:I just came out of the theater. No spoilers here.

Star Wars is extremely special to me. I've spent more time reading the Expanded Universe (now defunct) books/comics/graphic novels, watching the movies, playing the video games, and just talking Star Wars in general than anything else. Motorcycle riding? Shooting? Video games of the non-Star Wars variety? None of them even come close.

I'd rather watch the prequels than this movie. This movie makes me want to take all of the last 2 1/2 decades of Star Wars stuff I've accumulated, put it on the lawn, and set it on fire.

Thank you George. You sold this to Disney and they fucked this up even more than the prequels did.

Whoa, that bad huh? Did JJ pull a "Into Darkness" again?

Yep. For me anyway.

I think you only feel that way because the movie firmly established virtually every single EU story as non-canon. So now you feel like the EU stuff is pointless fan fiction.

The movie was awesome.


I will also say this. I really want to bring my daughter to see it. Right now, she's not into Star Wars. She has watched Rebels but that's her only real exposure to Star Wars and she doesn't seem to like it much. I think this movie would change her mind. Unfortunately, there is a part that might be upsetting to her. She's 4. I'm torn. Especially because I think there's a great role model for her in the movie. Those who have seen it will know what I'm talking about.

I hope I didn't inadvertently spoil anything.

Wurble wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:

pdoggeth wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:I just came out of the theater. No spoilers here.

Star Wars is extremely special to me. I've spent more time reading the Expanded Universe (now defunct) books/comics/graphic novels, watching the movies, playing the video games, and just talking Star Wars in general than anything else. Motorcycle riding? Shooting? Video games of the non-Star Wars variety? None of them even come close.

I'd rather watch the prequels than this movie. This movie makes me want to take all of the last 2 1/2 decades of Star Wars stuff I've accumulated, put it on the lawn, and set it on fire.

Thank you George. You sold this to Disney and they fucked this up even more than the prequels did.

Whoa, that bad huh? Did JJ pull a "Into Darkness" again?

Yep. For me anyway.

I think you only feel that way because the movie firmly established virtually every single EU story as non-canon. So now you feel like the EU stuff is pointless fan fiction.

The movie was awesome.

No. But I cannot give a full slew of reasons without major spoilers so at this point, I'm just going to stew here and rethink my main leisure activity of the last 2 and a 1/2 decades.

KVoimakas wrote:
No. But I cannot give a full slew of reasons without major spoilers so at this point, I'm just going to stew here and rethink my main leisure activity of the last 2 and a 1/2 decades.

I can somewhat feel your pain. While Star Wars is nothing more than a plate of cookies to me, I have strong feelings about Star Trek. And Star Trek has just been on a runaway bobsled to hell. The last two movies sukked donkey balls, the alternate reality reboot was a lame idea in the first place, and Star Trek belongs on the TV. This is a source of genuine pain for me.

BTW, I'm not going to do it but if someone wanted to start the **SPOILER ALERT STAR WARS THREAD SPOILER ALERT**, I wouldn't mind starting the conversation now.

I'm glad that I'm not into fan fic. I enjoyed the latest movie as it is: a piece of flashy entertainment.

MayhemVI wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:
No. But I cannot give a full slew of reasons without major spoilers so at this point, I'm just going to stew here and rethink my main leisure activity of the last 2 and a 1/2 decades.

I can somewhat feel your pain. While Star Wars is nothing more than a plate of cookies to me, I have strong feelings about Star Trek. And Star Trek has just been on a runaway bobsled to hell. The last two movies sukked donkey balls, the alternate reality reboot was a lame idea in the first place, and Star Trek belongs on the TV. This is a source of genuine pain for me.

BTW, I'm not going to do it but if someone wanted to start the **SPOILER ALERT STAR WARS THREAD SPOILER ALERT**, I wouldn't mind starting the conversation now.

I'm a big fan of Trek as well. I think I could just say I'm a Star**** fan. (Gate, Wars, Trek)

I also hated the reboot for Trek. Abrams just ruins things.

Extremely minor spoilers contained. I've hidden them as best I can. Honestly they shouldn't be any surprise at all, but I'm trying to be cautious.

I think calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist.

No one complained that Luke is a Mary Sue, but he is. Here you have a farmboy who never had to fend for himself. Lived with his "uncle and aunt" with virtually no conflict and definitely no combat training. His comment about bullseying womprats is like saying someone who shoots wood chucks on their farm will somehow instantly be the most badass spec forces soldier with no training is insane. FFS, Luke had zero training with an X-Wing, no experience with its targetting system or anything and yet he's able to gun down tie fighters and bullseye a tiny ass port on the death star when the best rebel pilots failed.

At least Rey has the benefit of living by herself on a rough planet. She's had to fend for herself; learning how to fight as a necessity for survival. She knows ship repair because she's a really great scavenger. This independence has also made her a far more mature character than Luke and thus keep her cool better.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I think the main character in FA is fantastic. And I especially think it's awesome that my daughter can watch it and see a woman doing these amazing things.

Wurble wrote:Extremely minor spoilers contained. I've hidden them as best I can. Honestly they shouldn't be any surprise at all, but I'm trying to be cautious.

I think calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist.

No one complained that Luke is a Mary Sue, but he is. Here you have a farmboy who never had to fend for himself. Lived with his "uncle and aunt" with virtually no conflict and definitely no combat training. His comment about bullseying womprats is like saying someone who shoots wood chucks on their farm will somehow instantly be the most badass spec forces soldier with no training is insane. FFS, Luke had zero training with an X-Wing, no experience with its targetting system or anything and yet he's able to gun down tie fighters and bullseye a tiny ass port on the death star when the best rebel pilots failed.

At least Rey has the benefit of living by herself on a rough planet. She's had to fend for herself; learning how to fight as a necessity for survival. She knows ship repair because she's a really great scavenger. This independence has also made her a far more mature character than Luke and thus keep her cool better.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I think the main character in FA is fantastic. And I especially think it's awesome that my daughter can watch it and see a woman doing these amazing things.

Well, ummmm, ok. Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker, in a storyline where heredity is very real. Anakin was able to fix anything and fly anything by instinct. Anakin was possessed of the highest midichlorian count in history with tuned him into the Force like no one else. Between that and Padme Amidala's extreme hotness, his offspring got their fair share of predisposition towards the Force. If such predisposition hadn't existed, Obi-wan wouldn't have had to live in a cave for 20 years, btw. Soooo, Luke was a naturally gifted fighter pilot who, using the beyond-the-grave mojo that Obi-wan gave him as well as his own natural gifts, hit the exhaust port using the Force. And we would expect nothing less from the son of Anakin Skywalker.

And I've known my share of farmboys who might take exception to the implication that life is easy because they had the temerity to live with their parents.

MayhemVI wrote:

Wurble wrote:Extremely minor spoilers contained. I've hidden them as best I can. Honestly they shouldn't be any surprise at all, but I'm trying to be cautious.

I think calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist.

No one complained that Luke is a Mary Sue, but he is. Here you have a farmboy who never had to fend for himself. Lived with his "uncle and aunt" with virtually no conflict and definitely no combat training. His comment about bullseying womprats is like saying someone who shoots wood chucks on their farm will somehow instantly be the most badass spec forces soldier with no training is insane. FFS, Luke had zero training with an X-Wing, no experience with its targetting system or anything and yet he's able to gun down tie fighters and bullseye a tiny ass port on the death star when the best rebel pilots failed.

At least Rey has the benefit of living by herself on a rough planet. She's had to fend for herself; learning how to fight as a necessity for survival. She knows ship repair because she's a really great scavenger. This independence has also made her a far more mature character than Luke and thus keep her cool better.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I think the main character in FA is fantastic. And I especially think it's awesome that my daughter can watch it and see a woman doing these amazing things.

Well, ummmm, ok. Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker, in a storyline where heredity is very real. Anakin was able to fix anything and fly anything by instinct. Anakin was possessed of the highest midichlorian count in history with tuned him into the Force like no one else. Between that and Padme Amidala's extreme hotness, his offspring got their fair share of predisposition towards the Force. If such predisposition hadn't existed, Obi-wan wouldn't have had to live in a cave for 20 years, btw. Soooo, Luke was a naturally gifted fighter pilot who, using the beyond-the-grave mojo that Obi-wan gave him as well as his own natural gifts, hit the exhaust port using the Force. And we would expect nothing less from the son of Anakin Skywalker.

Why wasn't Leia?

And I've known my share of farmboys who might take exception to the implication that life is easy because they had the temerity to live with their parents.

They weren't moisture farmers on Tatooine with a bunch of droids.

Also note that the "Mary Sue" in Force Awakens has unknown parentage at this time. To me, I think it's pretty obvious what their lineage is.

Wurble wrote: Why wasn't Leia?

How do you know she wasn't? For all you know, she's spent the last 30 years grabbing peaches out of the fruitbowl from across the room.

Wurble wrote:They weren't moisture farmers on Tatooine with a bunch of droids.

Considering how limited your knowledge is on how the double whammy of beyond-the-grave and hereditary Force mojo makes destroying a moon size space station a virtual walk in the park, I'd hardly trust you to fathom the intricacies of moisture farming on Tatooine (with or without droids). It's not all sunblock and striking a pose while staring off into the double sunset my friend. Here in the real world, you either work the moisture farm or the moisture farm works you.

And my dad can beat up your dad.

MayhemVI wrote:

Wurble wrote: Why wasn't Leia?

How do you know she wasn't? For all you know, she's spent the last 30 years grabbing peaches out of the fruitbowl from across the room.

Wurble wrote:They weren't moisture farmers on Tatooine with a bunch of droids.

Considering how limited your knowledge is on how the double whammy of beyond-the-grave and hereditary Force mojo makes destroying a moon size space station a virtual walk in the park, I'd hardly trust you to fathom the intricacies of moisture farming on Tatooine (with or without droids). It's not all sunblock and striking a pose while staring off into the double sunset my friend. Here in the real world, you either work the moisture farm or the moisture farm works you.

The main character's parentage has not been established. And the way they grew up was WAY more harsh and FAR better at preparing them for the things to come.

I think the main character's parentage was hinted at greatly so much of your argument (I'll let you figure out which part) is 100% moot.

Episodes 7,8 and 9: Rey Skywalker vs Ben Solo

Stiff wrote:Episodes 7,8 and 9: Rey Skywalker vs Ben Solo

Right up until the wedding....and then they get serious about killing each other.

Wurble wrote:I think calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist.

Don't you remember all the "Gary Stu" complaints when Luke jumped behind the controls of a space fighter and outflew experienced combat pilots to save the day and be one of only two survivors?

Yeah, me neither.

MayhemVI wrote:

Stiff wrote:Episodes 7,8 and 9: Rey Skywalker vs Ben Solo

Right up until the wedding....and then they get serious about killing each other.

Only if this took place in the galactic equivalent of Mississippi, as they're first cousins.

I knew a simple farm boy once who just stumbled into a major doomsday plot where he took out several experienced Spetznaz soldiers and then hopped into a F-22 Raptor, shot down several enemy aircraft, and happened to shoot down a nuclear missile from mid-air just moments before it could impact the United States.

True story, bro.


"Mary Sue" characters are typical for Star Wars, especially those who are force sensitive. It's practically an essential element of the escapist fantasy formula.

I don't think anyone would say that working on a farm is "easy," but it isn't likely to teach military skills and it's not as comparatively difficult as, say, being a homeless lone scavenger.

Pre-adventure - A bad day for Luke is not being able to get power converters from Tasha station or staying home another season. A bad day for Rey is starvation and possibly injury from her job.

That's part of what makes Rey an interesting character: she's tough, independent, resourceful and even a bit cynical because her survival depends on it, but underneath that we see glimpses of compassion, empathy, and an adventurous spirit. She makes a good counterpoint to the brash, reckless idealism of Finn.


***minorly spoilerish ***

Rey's lineage is strongly hinted at in the movie, and this connection seems even more likely if you re-watch the trailers... There are some spoken lines that were cut from the film.

Of course that whole thing could be a misdirection, which would also be cool.

Huh, a Star Wars movie where I'm actually interested in the characters and wanting to learn more about them? "I felt something, a presence I've not felt in..."

Mikester wrote:I knew a simple farm boy once who just stumbled into a major doomsday plot where he took out several experienced Spetznaz soldiers and then hopped into a F-22 Raptor, shot down several enemy aircraft, and happened to shoot down a nuclear missile from mid-air just moments before it could impact the United States.

True story, bro.


"Mary Sue" characters are typical for Star Wars, especially those who are force sensitive. It's practically an essential element of the escapist fantasy formula.

I don't think anyone would say that working on a farm is "easy," but it isn't likely to teach military skills and it's not as comparatively difficult as, say, being a homeless lone scavenger.

Pre-adventure - A bad day for Luke is not being able to get power converters from Tasha station or staying home another season. A bad day for Rey is starvation and possibly injury from her job.

That's part of what makes Rey an interesting character: she's tough, independent, resourceful and even a bit cynical because her survival depends on it, but underneath that we see glimpses of compassion, empathy, and an adventurous spirit. She makes a good counterpoint to the brash, reckless idealism of Finn.


***minorly spoilerish ***

Rey's lineage is strongly hinted at in the movie, and this connection seems even more likely if you re-watch the trailers... There are some spoken lines that were cut from the film.

Of course that whole thing could be a misdirection, which would also be cool.

Huh, a Star Wars movie where I'm actually interested in the characters and wanting to learn more about them? "I felt something, a presence I've not felt in..."

EXACTLY!

And btw, to whoever mentioned Ben, we were trying to keep this thread spoiler free.

Anyway, both Fin and Rey were not at all what I expected of them and that's awesome. Not only do I want to see what happens to them next REALLY badly (and not just because Star Wars), this is the first movie in as long as I can remember where I'm genuinely excited about watching it again. I'm more excited about seeing it again than I am about seeing most movies the first time.