The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Assault weapons, like the two pictured above in a police photo of the weapons used in San Bernardino, are a relatively new addition to our nation's gun larder. Prior to the mid-1980s, revolvers dominated the handgun market and most rifles and shotguns were designed for hunting or sport. Even most law enforcement agencies still relied primarily on revolvers and standard (non-military-style) long guns.

But in the 1980s and 1990s, the gun industry, desperate to lift sagging sales, introduced U.S. gun buyers to assault weapons with detachable high-capacity ammunition magazines. Most of these were semiautomatic versions (firing one bullet per trigger pull) of fully automatic (the weapon will fire as long as the trigger is depressed) military weapons. They quickly became the "must-have" item for a segment of America's gun-owning population: both law-abiding and criminal. Soon, MAC-10 and TEC-9 assault pistols, as well as AR-15, AK-47, UZI and SKS assault rifles were the desired weapons of the drug dealers that drove the crack cocaine market of the late 1980s and early 1990s.

These guns were favored not just for their increased firepower, but their ability to intimidate. The inevitable result of introducing weapons originally designed to inflict as many deaths as possible in as efficient a manner as could be imagined was soon seen. The modern era of mass-casualty public shootings was inaugurated when James Huberty decided to go "hunting for humans" with an UZI Carbine at a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, California on July 18, 1984.

weapons originally designed to inflict as many deaths as possible in as efficient a manner as could be

KnightsFan wrote:

weapons originally designed to inflict as many deaths as possible in as efficient a manner as could be

But doesn't that describe every firearm ever designed?

Modern sporting rifles are just the latest update. I wonder if there was hand wringing in the 1860s about lever action carbines being tools of death not needed for civilian hunters?

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

DispositionMatrix wrote:Articles/blog posts are presented by me as what, given the sources, could loosely be called information, and usually with little commentary. There should not be any reason to make the leap heads are "on fire."

Also, choosing not to read these threads is effortless.

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

workinstiff wrote:

DispositionMatrix wrote:Articles/blog posts are presented by me as what, given the sources, could loosely be called information, and usually with little commentary. There should not be any reason to make the leap heads are "on fire."

Also, choosing not to read these threads is effortless.

It is effortless but don't you sell yourself short. I do read your threads because you are garnering interesting information and I do appreciate what you do. Ya a little crabby tonight (not baiting, honestly) I do appreciate your news feeds.

begemot wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

I've lived in the DC metro area for 22 years and worked in three different DC neighborhoods for a third of that time, including Anacostia. I've never once heard "full auto gunfire" coming from anywhere. Most of my friends live in DC and they haven't either.

Tedzilla wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

Most of us in McLean and Great Falls can't afford full auto HK MP5s... If you think you're hearing full auto in SW DC pull your head out and listen again.
Yeah, I lived in parts of DC not as nice as Capital Hill for years...

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:

begemot wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

I've lived in the DC metro area for 22 years and worked in three different DC neighborhoods for a third of that time, including Anacostia. I've never once heard "full auto gunfire" coming from anywhere. Most of my friends live in DC and they haven't either.

By not uncommon I'm talking about two or three times per year. Mostly I will hear rapid semi-auto fire of a whole magazine about once a month. And a random two or three gun shots another two times a month. I'm a notorious night hawk so you might have simply been sleeping. This has almost always been like 1 or 2 am. DC is very quiet at night and the gun fire is hard to miss. It almost all comes from SE.

shinzen wrote:As pointed out, there's a big difference between the full auto fire referred to in your first post and the "rapid semi auto fire" in your second. The first is highly unlikely, and the uneducated may frequently conflate it with the latter, but they are distinctly different. It goes back to one of the root issues that a lot of us have with the coverage in the press in the first place. An AR-15 or MAC 10 is not full auto without substantial and illegal modification.

Inquisitor wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:

begemot wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:I think the drug dealer reference was more specific to the MAC-10 and TEC-9 which was true. As far as the other weapons I'm not sure what they are using, but it is not uncommon to hear full auto gunfire coming from the rougher sections of DC. Never really wanted to be close enough to determine what they are using but I suspect they are machine pistols of the H&K MP5/7 variety.

I've lived in the DC metro area for 22 years and worked in three different DC neighborhoods for a third of that time, including Anacostia. I've never once heard "full auto gunfire" coming from anywhere. Most of my friends live in DC and they haven't either.

By not uncommon I'm talking about two or three times per year. Mostly I will hear rapid semi-auto fire of a whole magazine about once a month. And a random two or three gun shots another two times a month. I'm a notorious night hawk so you might have simply been sleeping. This has almost always been like 1 or 2 am. DC is very quiet at night and the gun fire is hard to miss. It almost all comes from SE.

I am pretty damn sure that we would have seen that somewhere in the news, if suddenly actual real "machine guns" were being used, well, anywhere.

You may have heard a gun fight between guys with the same guns, but select fire is really unlikely. I have heard select fire weapons discharged, they are different from almost everything. Not to mention if they have REAL machine guns, those would be worth more than anything that might come from the crimes being perpetrated in suburban DC, and even the crooks know that.

Gonna have to back that up, mon amis.