The Liberal Gun Club Forum

So I was watching the news and it was reported that the two San Bernardino shooters were practicing at a local indoor shooting range. They were practicing in full Muslim attire, the report specified the woman was fully veiled, and the owner was asked didn't that concern you? He replied no it didn't give him any concerns.

But this brought up a question in my mind about the whole "see it, report it" campaign. What would you have to see before it rises to the point that one would report it?

I'll give another example of an actual posting I read where the poster seriously wondered if he should report it. The poster said he was in a local box store and there were two individuals checking out in front of him, speaking Arabic, and the only thing they were buying was a pressure cooker.

Sorry both examples were related to Islam, but I suppose that is what everyone is talking about these days. Which actually brings up a different point of discussion. If the guy that was concern about two Muslims buying only a pressure cooker, would he have been as concerned if it was two teenagers? Two Chinese men speaking Mandarin? Two women speaking some unknown language?

I think the test for me would be to:

A) Take a deep breath, then
B) Ask myself if the action would seem odd if: The woman at the range wore cowboy boots and a baseball hat and spoke with a drawl.... or if the person buying the pressure cooker was an elderly white granny.

To wonder first off if they are up to no good because of what they wore or what they spoke, I would have to stop and check my bias credentials. I'd be supremely uncomfortable to go there, personally.

Is it what they are doing, or who they are?

Hell, my wife has both been to the range and bought a pressure cooker and the only person she's every terrorized was me. (and I deserved it)

Edit to add: This smells to me even more baiting than the other post. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm wondering at the Muslim focus here...

I know some Instructors that refuse to train non-Citizens because those non-Citizens may do something bad. They ask for a LOT of information about non-Citizens that want to train with them.

I told them to fuck the hell off.

Until someone does something illegal, what the hell is wrong with The Other learning to defend themselves?

Even if the Statzi had their boot directly on my neck, I would not say anything. See something/say something...fuck that.

And that sounds nice on paper, swap out the specific people and see if it passes a smell test.

But I live on Capitol Hill in DC and if I am walking down the sidewalk and see a group of three black teenagers coming down the street in front of me, I'm crossing the street. And if they then cross the street too, I'm about to get mugged and better do something fast. Profiling? Yes. A good idea for survival though.

And before anyone accuses me of being a racist, this has been a continuing problem on Capitol Hill with roving bands of black teenagers committing aggravated robberies. A number of residents have been permanently injuried from the attacks. I'm not sure about the number killed -- if any -- but it wasn't for lack of trying.

I think we profile everyday. Call it gut instincts if you like, but we do it.

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:So I was watching the news and it was reported that the two San Bernardino shooters were practicing at a local indoor shooting range. They were practicing in full Muslim attire, the report specified the woman was fully veiled, and the owner was asked didn't that concern you? He replied no it didn't give him any concerns.

What...Muslim women in Muslim attire? that's suspicious

But careful....there's a new kid on the streets....

Open Carry Barbie!

Comes complete with:

Pink Camo AR-15
'Kiss me I'm Christian' T-shirt
iPhone
Yoga pants

Cause for concern?
No, but you'd probably shake your head in wonder.

Funny, I run across groups of black kids walking here in St Louis a fair bit. I move to the side, wish them well while making eye contact and have never had an issue.

The difference is that the police around here trust us little people enough to allow us to potentially carry so when a white guy in his mid forties is polite to men of a much different age bracket and demographic they tend to assume that I am not an easy target because I did not cross the street out of fear.

And yes, 'see something say something' is what our Authorities tell us to do so we will be comfortable turning on each other so they don't have to look like jackbooted thugs.

I'd think it perfectly normal to see a foreign born person buying a pressure cooker. Natural born Norte Americans have no use of them since energy and water are so cheap.

MaxwellG wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:So I was watching the news and it was reported that the two San Bernardino shooters were practicing at a local indoor shooting range. They were practicing in full Muslim attire, the report specified the woman was fully veiled, and the owner was asked didn't that concern you? He replied no it didn't give him any concerns.

What...Muslim women in Muslim attire? that's suspicious

But careful....there's a new kid on the streets....

Open Carry Barbie!

Comes complete with:

Pink Camo AR-15
'Kiss me I'm Christian' T-shirt
iPhone
Yoga pants

Cause for concern?
No, but you'd probably shake your head in wonder.

Heh. Waiting for the woman in abaya open carrying a gun belt with Glock around her waist. Hey, there have been threats on her life -- she needs to protect herself!

This open carry thing in Texas is going to be fun!

Be careful of wandering down paranoid paths illuminated by hindsight in a tunnel.

Tim McVeigh was a white guy in camo. Should we report anyone wearing camo? How about an average looking young white male like Dylann Roof?

In the words of Wednsday Addams, homicidal maniacs look like everyone else.

ErikO wrote:Funny, I run across groups of black kids walking here in St Louis a fair bit. I move to the side, wish them well while making eye contact and have never had an issue.

The difference is that the police around here trust us little people enough to allow us to potentially carry so when a white guy in his mid forties is polite to men of a much different age bracket and demographic they tend to assume that I am not an easy target because I did not cross the street out of fear.

And yes, 'see something say something' is what our Authorities tell us to do so we will be comfortable turning on each other so they don't have to look like jackbooted thugs.

It is not a question of fear, although it is a good way to get them to demonstrate their intent. It's more a question of keeping them out of arms reach. A favorite maneuver is the knock out punch. In fact some of the kids don't bother with the robbery, they are having too much fun knocking people out with one punch.

You wouldn't last long on DC Streets....

I know some Instructors that refuse to train non-Citizens because those non-Citizens may do something bad. They ask for a LOT of information about non-Citizens that want to train with them.

To be fair, I know instructors who don't teach non-citizens because they're afraid of violating ITAR regs. Many training orgs who also do fed government contracting refuse to train any non-citizens. ITAR is open to interpretation and it's probably not worth losing a 30mil contract because you trained the wrong foreigner. But there are some who just use it an excuse to discriminate.

I can't imagine an everyday activity becoming reportable solely because the person doing it is different than me.

Simmer down wrote:I can't imagine an everyday activity becoming reportable solely because the person doing it is different than me.

Not only is that disagreeable, but it would be a great way to swamp the reporting system with noise. Thus making it useless as well as horrible.

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:So I was watching the news and it was reported that the two San Bernardino shooters were practicing at a local indoor shooting range. They were practicing in full Muslim attire, the report specified the woman was fully veiled, and the owner was asked didn't that concern you? He replied no it didn't give him any concerns.

But this brought up a question in my mind about the whole "see it, report it" campaign. What would you have to see before it rises to the point that one would report it?

I'll give another example of an actual posting I read where the poster seriously wondered if he should report it. The poster said he was in a local box store and there were two individuals checking out in front of him, speaking Arabic, and the only thing they were buying was a pressure cooker.

Sorry both examples were related to Islam, but I suppose that is what everyone is talking about these days. Which actually brings up a different point of discussion. If the guy that was concern about two Muslims buying only a pressure cooker, would he have been as concerned if it was two teenagers? Two Chinese men speaking Mandarin? Two women speaking some unknown language?

WTF?