The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Only abridged portions of this interview are being reported much in the news, but the father of Syed Farook was interviewed by the Italian newspaper La Stampa. In the interview the father, also named Syed Farook, said that "[His son] said he agreed with [IS chief Abu Bakr] al-Baghdadi's ideas for creating the Islamic State, and he was obsessed by Israel." This was widely reported in U.S. news sources.

What wasn't reported are the comments the father continued with after that portion:

"I always used to say to him, be calm, patience, in two years' time Israel will no longer exist. Geopolitics are changing: Russia, China, America too, nobody wants Jews over there. They will put them all in Ukraine. Why bother fighting them? We did that before, and we lost," the 67-year-old said.

WHAT!?!? This is a man that emigrated to America something like 30 years ago. He is bemoaning the belief that his life in America is over now because of his son's actions.

What's wrong in this family portrait? Very peculiar situation.

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:Only abridged portions of this interview are being reported much in the news, but the father of Syed Farook was interviewed by the Italian newspaper La Stampa. In the interview the father, also named Syed Farook, said that "[His son] said he agreed with [IS chief Abu Bakr] al-Baghdadi's ideas for creating the Islamic State, and he was obsessed by Israel." This was widely reported in U.S. news sources.

What wasn't reported are the comments the father continued with after that portion:

"I always used to say to him, be calm, patience, in two years' time Israel will no longer exist. Geopolitics are changing: Russia, China, America too, nobody wants Jews over there. They will put them all in Ukraine. Why bother fighting them? We did that before, and we lost," the 67-year-old said.

WHAT!?!? This is a man that emigrated to America something like 30 years ago. He is bemoaning the belief that his life in America is over now because of his son's actions.

What's wrong in this family portrait? Very peculiar situation.

If it was not reported , where did you get it ?

The answer to your title question is obviously yes Muslims can be assimilated, despite this lone example of Syeed Farooq's effed up family.

You might as well have asked can we assimilate these dang southerners, they keep talking about secession and flying that peculiar confederate flag.

I have known and worked with many Moslems over the years in healthcare and have take care of many. They have assimilated as well as any other religious group. I have seen groups of Orthodox Jews and Romas that were less assimilated. We have the rabid evangelical Christian sects that are not as assimilated.

pdoggeth wrote:The answer to your title question is obviously yes Muslims can be assimilated, despite this lone example of Syeed Farooq's effed up family.

You might as well have asked can we assimilate these dang southerners, they keep talking about secession and flying that peculiar confederate flag.

This.

pdoggeth wrote:The answer to your title question is obviously yes Muslims can be assimilated, despite this lone example of Syeed Farooq's effed up family.

You might as well have asked can we assimilate these dang southerners, they keep talking about secession and flying that peculiar confederate flag.

I've been known to make the comment that it sometimes feels like we are still fighting the Civil War....

pdoggeth wrote:The answer to your title question is obviously yes Muslims can be assimilated, despite this lone example of Syeed Farooq's effed up family.

You might as well have asked can we assimilate these dang southerners, they keep talking about secession and flying that peculiar confederate flag.

Assimilated, Id agree. But there are still problems. I live in the middle of an area of St Louis with 33,000 Bosnian refugees, and I can tell you that a fair amount of the original refugees from Bosnia , while not totally able to assimilate, are still doing well. We have a Minaret and a Mosque just blocks from my house, and even though many whined and complained about it being a spot to train terrorist, nothing bad has happened in the 10 years its been there. Majority of Bosnian's are Muslim.
Yet some of the elders, original immigrants, still can not speak much English, but not from lack of trying. They just cant do it and it makes life more difficult for them and their families. Their kids can not move away as they have to stay close for anything involving English and so on. They can do it, its just not like growing up here. But then again, it never is for any non native English speaking immigrant.

dandad wrote: If it was not reported , where did you get it ?

You can Google the interview. I cut the particular passages I quoted from Yahoo! News.

http://news.yahoo.com/father-shooter-fa ... 11440.html

Of course they can, can't generalize for all Muslims. Hell, I know a few former Muslims who identify as Atheists now.

Personally, I take some offense at the title but hey, that's on me. Frankly, conservative christians have been a long term source of violence and terror in the US. Much more so than any other group. And you ask if Muslims can be assimilated. I have several Muslim friends who are well integrated into US culture and I worry about the BS harassment they endure from US christian conservatives.

dandad wrote: Assimilated, Id agree. But there are still problems. I live in the middle of an area of St Louis with 33,000 Bosnian refugees, and I can tell you that a fair amount of the original refugees from Bosnia , while not totally able to assimilate, are still doing well. We have a Minaret and a Mosque just blocks from my house, and even though many whined and complained about it being a spot to train terrorist, nothing bad has happened in the 10 years its been there. Majority of Bosnian's are Muslim.
Yet some of the elders, original immigrants, still can not speak much English, but not from lack of trying. They just cant do it and it makes life more difficult for them and their families. Their kids can not move away as they have to stay close for anything involving English and so on. They can do it, its just not like growing up here. But then again, it never is for any non native English speaking immigrant.

Look back in our history every new immigrant group has had the same issues discriminated for the language, or color of their skin, or customs. By the third generation most were assimilated and many of their customs and parts of the language becoming part of the American language. This is the norm except for blacks. They have continued to have discrimination in their lives.

Yes. Kinda silly question.

I'm standing at a laundromat in the middle of Orlando's Little Saigon, 40 years ago people asked the same thing about these refugees. I think the fact that Little Saigon gets smaller and smaller every year is a sign that yes, any refugee group can assimilate, if given the proper welcome.

That's the biggest obstacle. Make sure refugee and immigrant groups feel welcomed. Like they're wanted and not a plague. If you look at what's happening in Europe, the problem is that they're being treated like a temporary problem.

Of course they can and a majority do. I'm proud to live in a country that guarantees a right to express racist, ignorant views.

dandad wrote:<huge-assed snip>
But then again, it never is for any non native English speaking immigrant.

Exactly. There were many immigrants from Europe who came over in middle life and lived near others from their country and so never picked up English. Their children did, and were integrated (better than "assimilated" IMNSFHO) just fine. It would be the same if we moved there - I know I would not learn their language well at my age.

With respect, the question the OP raises (in title) is not only silly, but has an element of baiting about it. You may as well ask whether Hindus can assimilate. Or Mormons. Or Catholics. Or French people. Or Finns. At least in this country, it strikes me that the vast majority of anyone who comes here, of any religion or from any country, ultimately turns into an American.

Sure, they may eat schnitzel at home, or falafels, or spring rolls, or whatever, but they become one of us: They join the service and die for our country, they get jobs and contribute, they raise kids, and they get heart disease. I've lived my life living amongst diversity, and maybe that's why this question strikes me as odd.

As for killers in our midst, we've much more to fear from home-grown disaffected white Christian apocalypticals than the foreign 'them.'

As for ignorant, racist, hateful ideas, well... I don't know that anyone has a monopoly on that.

Spain would have been shit if the Moors had not settled it. We could not have left the surface of the earth let alone get to the moon without algebra.

So, yes. They helped shape Western Civ so they get a place at the table.

The topic was a subject simply for discussion, keying a little off of the current babbling of Trump. Didn't mean it to sound like baiting. It is a mainspring of passions in conservative circles this election though.

A segment of American society has spent the last decade nurturing a hatred of Muslim beliefs and the last seven years specifically racially abusing the President. It's like a perfect storm of racial and religious hatred has developed this election cycle, more so than past boogeymen of conservatives.

I had a long, long day in a cell culture hood......about an hour and a half after I shoulda left I looked over and saw my coworker performing his late afternoon prayers right in the lab. I'm thankful that he's comfortable enough to do it right there.

And he thinks Trump is an asshole.

To me, simply questioning whether a particular group of people can assimilate is bigotry. Islam is a religion like any other, and its adherents are human beings just like the rest of us. It's not a genetic predisposition that makes people immune to being assimilated.

Until a generation ago my town had an actual Polish neighborhood, populated by several generations of Polish people who liked to marry within the group. Somehow I don't hear garbage like "Polish folks can't assimilate".

Until not too long ago NYC had an actual little Italy, despite Italians having immigrated here for centuries.

Handful of Muslims out of millions of peaceful ones in USA committed terrorism, then all of a sudden you question whether they all can assimilate?

While you're at it, you can also question whether guns can be used for anything other than massacres.

Stiff wrote:To me, simply questioning whether a particular group of people can assimilate is bigotry. Islam is a religion like any other, and its adherents are human beings just like the rest of us. It's not a genetic predisposition that makes people immune to being assimilated.

Until a generation ago my town had an actual Polish neighborhood, populated by several generations of Polish people who liked to marry within the group. Somehow I don't hear garbage like "Polish folks can't assimilate".

Until not too long ago NYC had an actual little Italy, despite Italians having immigrated here for centuries.

Handful of Muslims out of millions of peaceful ones in USA committed terrorism, then all of a sudden you question whether they all can assimilate?

While you're at it, you can also question whether guns can be used for anything other than massacres.

Calm down. Like I said, I didn't mean the title as baiting but simply reflective of the conversation of the day with an example that struck me as odd.

However, I will point out one thing that everyone seems to be missing. I titled it "Western Civilization" and not the United States. The U.S. has a long tradition of assimilating huddled masses. Compare and contrast that with the record in Europe. Britain has done a pretty good job of it, a remnant of its Empire days. France, Germany, and others not so much. I think in particular that Germany is going to have some adjusting to do.

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:

Stiff wrote:To me, simply questioning whether a particular group of people can assimilate is bigotry. Islam is a religion like any other, and its adherents are human beings just like the rest of us. It's not a genetic predisposition that makes people immune to being assimilated.

Until a generation ago my town had an actual Polish neighborhood, populated by several generations of Polish people who liked to marry within the group. Somehow I don't hear garbage like "Polish folks can't assimilate".

Until not too long ago NYC had an actual little Italy, despite Italians having immigrated here for centuries.

Handful of Muslims out of millions of peaceful ones in USA committed terrorism, then all of a sudden you question whether they all can assimilate?

While you're at it, you can also question whether guns can be used for anything other than massacres.

Calm down. Like I said, I didn't mean the title as baiting but simply reflective of the conversation of the day with an example that struck me as odd.

However, I will point out one thing that everyone seems to be missing. I titled it "Western Civilization" and not the United States. The U.S. has a long tradition of assimilating huddled masses. Compare and contrast that with the record in Europe. Britain has done a pretty good job of it, a remnant of its Empire days. France, Germany, and others not so much. I think in particular that Germany is going to have some adjusting to do.

I didn't miss it, just didn't address it. Ever been to Berlin? Some of the most vibrant and dedicated Berliners (the people, not the doughnut) are emigres. German to the core. There are also immigrant ghettos, where jobs are scarce and assimilation harder. We've had those here, too, populated by Irish, Italians, Chinese... Germany, like many countries in Europe, have an anti-immigrant right wing and a few are particularly nasty; overall, many of the general population - if not most - are tolerant and even welcoming.

It's also true that France and Germany have accepted a huge influx of immigrants/refugees relative to their populations, when compared to this country. It's no exaggeration to say that they and other countries experience genuine challenges to house and service a sudden influx of people... and that does cause tension.

It does seem that the nativist drumbeat from the right has been especially loud, and it's not helpful that some candidates are intentionally fanning the flames. To me, Trump's comments in particular are right on the edge of irresponsibility, if not fully beyond. I am concerned that some (or several) individuals already primed with bigotry will use his words as license to do bad things.

KlownKannon wrote:I had a long, long day in a cell culture hood......about an hour and a half after I shoulda left I looked over and saw my coworker performing his late afternoon prayers right in the lab. I'm thankful that he's comfortable enough to do it right there.

And he thinks Trump is an asshole.

Cool. I'm sure he likewise appreciates that it's a comfortable and tolerant atmosphere for him to do so. When I first met my wife's uncle in Amman, Jordan, he excused himself for prayers while we were conversing; it was very low-key, and we just picked up where we had left off when he returned.

Bacchus wrote:

Merkwuerdigliebe wrote:

Stiff wrote:To me, simply questioning whether a particular group of people can assimilate is bigotry. Islam is a religion like any other, and its adherents are human beings just like the rest of us. It's not a genetic predisposition that makes people immune to being assimilated.

Until a generation ago my town had an actual Polish neighborhood, populated by several generations of Polish people who liked to marry within the group. Somehow I don't hear garbage like "Polish folks can't assimilate".

Until not too long ago NYC had an actual little Italy, despite Italians having immigrated here for centuries.

Handful of Muslims out of millions of peaceful ones in USA committed terrorism, then all of a sudden you question whether they all can assimilate?

While you're at it, you can also question whether guns can be used for anything other than massacres.

Calm down. Like I said, I didn't mean the title as baiting but simply reflective of the conversation of the day with an example that struck me as odd.

However, I will point out one thing that everyone seems to be missing. I titled it "Western Civilization" and not the United States. The U.S. has a long tradition of assimilating huddled masses. Compare and contrast that with the record in Europe. Britain has done a pretty good job of it, a remnant of its Empire days. France, Germany, and others not so much. I think in particular that Germany is going to have some adjusting to do.

I didn't miss it, just didn't address it. Ever been to Berlin? Some of the most vibrant and dedicated Berliners (the people, not the doughnut) are emigres. German to the core. There are also immigrant ghettos, where jobs are scarce and assimilation harder. We've had those here, too, populated by Irish, Italians, Chinese... Germany, like many countries in Europe, have an anti-immigrant right wing and a few are particularly nasty; overall, many of the general population - if not most - are tolerant and even welcoming.

It's also true that France and Germany have accepted a huge influx of immigrants/refugees relative to their populations, when compared to this country. It's no exaggeration to say that they and other countries experience genuine challenges to house and service a sudden influx of people... and that does cause tension.

It does seem that the nativist drumbeat from the right has been especially loud, and it's not helpful that some candidates are intentionally fanning the flames. To me, Trump's comments in particular are right on the edge of irresponsibility, if not fully beyond. I am concerned that some (or several) individuals already primed with bigotry will use his words as license to do bad things.

I lived in Germany for three years. And I love Berlin. Berlin though is a significant outlier, especially in relation to the former East Germany. The former "Guest Workers" and their families still have not been integrated into the greater German society. And they've been living in Germany for around for 60 years.

Ah, you lived there - cool. At the risk of thread hijack... One side of my family hails from Luebeck, and I have friends in Koln. I love Berlin as well. I've always found it to be at once very un-German and quintessentially German. It is unique.