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There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:41 pm
by FrontSight
So I think liberals need to focus EVERYTHING on education.
As they say in The South, "Americans are just eat up with the dumb ass".
We have a populous that's just plain dumb, and we're never going to get anywhere on any meaningful issue until the general populous is better educated.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:53 pm
by KnightsFan
Trouble is convincing the current generations that they should sacrifice for the future.
And getting it past the corporate overlords want us just educated enough to work for them in STEM subjects. They know that doesn't provide the skills necessary to question the status quo.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:58 pm
by Mason
Agreed. Until "I'm not good at math" and "I don't eat vegetables" cease to be badges of honor we're obiesely dumb fucked.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 pm
by senorgrand
I think arrogance is at least a big a problem as education. I know plenty of well-educated people who are ignorant when it comes to one topic or another. The problem is they think they're an expert at everything because they're knowledgeable in one specific area.
Call it the Ben Carson effect.

Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 am
by TheViking
Mason wrote:Agreed. Until "I'm not good at math" and "I don't eat vegetables" cease to be badges of honor we're obiesely dumb fucked.
"I don't vaccinate my child"...
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:54 am
by CDFingers
That's why I'm a teacher. It's actually kind of funny: an old hippie who teaches English and has gunz. One of my example papers examines gun rights. The conservatives hate me because I'm a liberal, and the liberals hate me because I defend gun rights. I love it.
CDFingers
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:28 am
by tc556guy
FrontSight wrote:So I think liberals need to focus EVERYTHING on education.
As they say in The South, "Americans are just eat up with the dumb ass".
We have a populous that's just plain dumb, and we're never going to get anywhere on any meaningful issue until the general populous is better educated.
I live in a college town that's occupied by an Ivy League university, a local community college and another private college
Some of the dumbest people I know are over-educated idiots
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:40 am
by wifesbane
How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:12 am
by modernhamlet
wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:14 am
by tc556guy
modernhamlet wrote:wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:18 am
by CDFingers
tc556guy wrote:modernhamlet wrote:wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
He may be right, but he's not correct in this case. It's true he says ridiculously ignorant things, which is part and parcel of how one much say crap to stay in office.
CDFingers
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:10 am
by tc556guy
CDFingers wrote:tc556guy wrote:modernhamlet wrote:wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
He may be right, but he's not correct in this case. It's true he says ridiculously ignorant things, which is part and parcel of how one much say crap to stay in office.
CDFingers
Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Chuckie Schumer and the rest of the lefty gun grabbers say plenty of ridiculous things.
yes, politicians say dumb things to the voters and they should get called on it every time they do
They should also have a limited time in office to say dumb things.
Politics should not be a life-long career.
Cruz is right but you say he is not correct. The two are the same thing. Right= correct.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:41 am
by shinzen
tc556guy wrote:
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
Interesting hypothesis. The same candidate that believes the following:
Ted Cruz launched his fake filibuster against Obamacare by claiming that failing to fight the implementation of Obamacare was akin to appeasing Adolf Hitler, and anyone who didn’t support his plans to stop health care reform were like Neville Chamberlain.
Cruz once told a group of conservatives, “You no longer have a president,” because Barack Obama had implemented health care reform in a “lawless” way.
Cruz told ABC’s Jonathan Karl that he believed the GOP could repeal Obamacare with Obama still in office.
When he was running for the Senate, Cruz said that Texas should let the uninsured get health care from emergency rooms.
Cruz promised to “uphold the sacrament of marriage” as president.
Cruz claimed that court rulings in favor of same-sex marriage are “a real threat to our liberty.”
Cruz claimed that Houston pastors may soon be “hauled off to jail for a hate crime,” due to the city’s anti-discrimination ordinance.
Cruz’ father, Rafael Cruz, may be as much of an asset to his son’s campaign as a thorn in its side. The senior Cruz has a record of staying things so outrageous that Ted Cruz at one time denied his father spoke for him, even was his aide was booking dad’s gigs.
Cruz claimed that legislation to protect access to abortion services is “a manifestation of the war on women.”
Cruz said the Democrats seeking to amend the constitution to give Congress the power to regulate campaign financing were really out to “expressly repeal the free-speech protections of the First Amendment.”
Cruz also derided “Farenheit 451 Democrats,” claiming that a proposed campaign finance amendment shows that liberals wanted to ban and burn books.
Cruz claimed the amendment to get money out of politics would “censor” Saturday Night Live, and “Lorne Michaels (of Saturday Night Live) could be put in jail under this amendment for making fun of any politician.”
Cruz also claimed that the amendment to repeal Citizens United would “muzzle” pastors.
Cruz called the standoff between the Bureau of Land Management and supporters of scofflaw and racist rancher Cliven Bundy, the “unfortunate and tragic culmination of the path that President Obama has set the federal government upon.”
Cruz claimed that the United Nations/George Soros “Agenda 21” would “abolish ‘unsustainable’ environments, including golf courses, grazing pastures, and paved roads.”
Posted
https://ourfuture.org/20150323/ted-cruz ... e-believes
Totally sane. Right.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:52 am
by CDFingers
I make zee joke: "right" = Republican/Conservative "Correct" = correct.
Also, I meant "must" say instead of "much" say.
CDFingers
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:09 pm
by shinzen
Cruz is just lobbing them up in the air.
"We will carpet bomb them into oblivion. I don’t know if sand can glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out," Cruz said at the Rising Tide Summit in Cedar Rapids.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... autologin=
Huh. Only way that things glow in the dark is when they've been nuked. Well he put that out there anyway. Real sane. Peach of a guy. I'm sure there would be no collateral damage.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:20 pm
by Coach
FrontSight wrote:So I think liberals need to focus EVERYTHING on education.
As they say in The South, "Americans are just eat up with the dumb ass".
We have a populous that's just plain dumb, and we're never going to get anywhere on any meaningful issue until the general populous is better educated.
I agree, although I suspect we would take different routes to get there.
I would privatize the whole industry and allow the Invisible Hand to work its magic.
I don't think we can fix education by throwing more extorted tax money at it. If we could, we would have an educational system that would be the envy of the world. We currently spend more per pupil than any country except Switzerland.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:12 pm
by TrueTexan
Coach wrote:FrontSight wrote:So I think liberals need to focus EVERYTHING on education.
As they say in The South, "Americans are just eat up with the dumb ass".
We have a populous that's just plain dumb, and we're never going to get anywhere on any meaningful issue until the general populous is better educated.
I agree, although I suspect we would take different routes to get there.
I would privatize the whole industry and allow the Invisible Hand to work its magic.
I don't think we can fix education by throwing more extorted tax money at it. If we could, we would have an educational system that would be the envy of the world. We currently spend more per pupil than any country except Switzerland.
I will disagree. We have seen what happens with the private charter schools. Not any better than the public school counterpart. Cost more per pupil especially with high administration cost. The lack of accountability in financial matters. Cherry picking students to attend. Denying students of need including special needs students. Paying teachers less salary while skimming funds. Not keeping agreements or meeting contracts. Closing schools leaving students without an education and teachers without pay.
There are good private schools. I know some in the DFW area but they are ether church supported, Jesuit, or having a large endowed and a high price tag to attend, Trinity Valley, Country Day. Just remember Coach if the schools were privatized as you wish you would not have a job, especially one that pays as well as you have now.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:29 pm
by Coach
TrueTexan wrote:There are good private schools. I know some in the DFW area but they are ether church supported, Jesuit, or having a large endowed and a high price tag to attend, Trinity Valley, Country Day. Just remember Coach if the schools were privatized as you wish you would not have a job, especially one that pays as well as you have now.
I'm in DFW, too.
I suspect that under Coach's Free Market in Education, lower cost private schools would open to meet demand. It would happen now, but it's virtually impossible to compete against an entity, like a public school district or the Post Office, that doesn't have to balance a budget or turn a profit.
I also suspect that I would be able to ply my trade in the private education sector. I'm pretty good at it.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:58 pm
by Mikester
Agreed with OP, but at the same time I suspect education is a more challenging issue to tackle than it would appear on the surface.
While the disproportionately low funding is a problem, I think the entire education system should be re-evaluated, particularly the current focus on standardized testing. While I profess my ignorance of education methods, it does seem that students should be taught HOW to think, rather than simply what to think.
Maybe it would help to somehow elevate teachers as a much more desirable position. Perhaps strong salaries coupled with more respect and admiration in culture. Make them heroes of society, similar to how our troops are often portrayed.
senorgrand wrote:I think arrogance is at least a big a problem as education. I know plenty of well-educated people who are ignorant when it comes to one topic or another. The problem is they think they're an expert at everything because they're knowledgeable in one specific area.
Call it the Ben Carson effect.

Sorry sir, but it already has a name: the
Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Like many intrinsic human foibles, the effect can be simultaneously hilarious and troubling.
Basically the less educated or skilled we are at something, the more confident we are in what we think we know about that thing. We lack the very knowledge required to realize how wrong and unskilled we are!
We see this all the time: terrible singers who think they're good, New Age hippies making up nonsense about quantum properties, or a politician describing the Internet as a "series of tubes."
Intetestingly, when we are highly educated in a particular field, we tend to overestimate our competence in other fields/subjects.
Turns out the Socrates quote of "all I know is that I know nothing" may really be the height of wisdom.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:04 pm
by Wurble
tc556guy wrote:modernhamlet wrote:wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
I'm so confused. Why is a Ted Cruz supporter on this forum if not to troll?
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:28 pm
by TrueTexan
Wurble wrote:tc556guy wrote:modernhamlet wrote:wifesbane wrote:How do you account for all the occurrences of well educated people who are still dumb asses, like those who choose to ignore facts because they don't like the consequences of the facts? Ted Cruz, after all, is well educated...
Ted Cruz is both well educated and intelligent. He says the ridiculously ignorant things he says because it has worked for him politically.
Or maybe...just maybe...he is RIGHT.
I'm so confused. Why is a Ted Cruz supporter on this forum if not to troll?
To seek enlightenment in the ways of real knowledge.

Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:49 pm
by Mason
He's a troll. He just hasn't *actually* violated TOS yet.
He will.

Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:27 pm
by rascally
Mason wrote:He's a troll. He just hasn't *actually* violated TOS yet.
He will.

So you would prefer this Forum just be an echo chamber, like so many others?
Aren't we supposed to be better than that?
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:34 pm
by Mason
rascally wrote:Mason wrote:He's a troll. He just hasn't *actually* violated TOS yet.
He will.

So you would prefer this Forum just be an echo chamber, like so many others?
Aren't we supposed to be better than that?
I'd prefer we didn't have trolls endorsing trolls for president.
If you don't like this echo chamber there are plenty of others available.
Re: There are no short term solutions...
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:38 pm
by wifesbane
rascally wrote:Mason wrote:He's a troll. He just hasn't *actually* violated TOS yet.
He will.

So you would prefer this Forum just be an echo chamber, like so many others?
Aren't we supposed to be better than that?
Echo chambers really suck but I think we are far from that. However, there is an expectation of offering supporting evidence to motivate informed discussions. Simply saying that Cruz, Paul, Bernie or the Dalai Lama is "RIGHT" does not pass the smell test around here.