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MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" claims

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:39 pm
by DispositionMatrix
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opini ... .html?_r=1
The statistics now being highlighted in the news come primarily from shootingtracker.com, a website built by members of a Reddit forum supporting gun control called GunsAreCool. That site aggregates news stories about shooting incidents — of any kind — in which four or more people are reported to have been either injured or killed.

It’s not clear why the Redditors use this much broader criteria. The founder of the “shooting tracker” project, who currently goes by the handle “Billy Speed,” told me it was his choice: “Three years ago I decided, all by myself, to change the United States’ definition of mass shooting.” It’s also not clear how many of those stories — many of them from local outlets, including scant detail — are accurate.

There is value in collecting those stories as a blunt measure of gun violence involving multiple victims. But as those numbers gain traction in the news media, they distort our understanding. According to our research at Mother Jones — subsequently corroborated by the F.B.I. — the more narrowly defined mass shootings have grown more frequent, and overwhelmingly involve legally obtained firearms. Experts in the emerging field of threat assessment believe that this is a unique phenomenon that must be understood on its own.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:51 pm
by pdoggeth
I am glad the NYTs and MoJo has made this distinction. Like Stones said, it's getting really tiring trying to explain there haven't been 300+ mass shootings this year.

Of course, it wouldn't be MoJo if there wasn't some sort of hit on the NRA though. The last sentence is that ;P.

Still, glad they did this.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:45 pm
by KnightsFan
My boss, a relatively well-informed guy who's been in journalism for 30 years repeated that stat. Didn't realize that it was a load of crap.

USA Today has a more realistic number of 15.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:25 am
by DispositionMatrix
Too bad Billy Speed is going to live this down with the help of an infotainment consortium willing to bury it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GunsAreCool/co ... /?sort=new
(Boldface his.)
Three years ago I decided, all by myself, to change the United States' definition of mass shooting [EDIT: THIS PART HE LEFT OUT] --->(it doesn't seem to need to be corrected anywhere else)<--- [WHAT!?!! WHY?!? TO MISLEAD?!]. My anger over the media's inaccurate reporting on it might have been the BIGGEST reason I created it (ignoring gun shot victims). Mind you, I'm not getting paid for this and I'm not connected with gun violence groups in any way (beyond twitter and GrC).

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:18 pm
by SmokeFan

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:23 pm
by TheViking
SmokeFan wrote:I may have commented about that. http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/2015/1 ... cant-even/
Dead link, at least on my phone :(

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:28 pm
by SmokeFan
TheViking wrote:
SmokeFan wrote:I may have commented about that. http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/2015/1 ... cant-even/
Dead link, at least on my phone :(
Hm, that's weird. I just tested it on my phone (since I don't have my blog login on my phone, just on my laptop) and it worked fine.

ETA: Here's the text:

____________________________________________________________

Lies, damn lies, and Reddit; or, why SmokeFan can't even

My ability to even broke sometime Thursday. (Hey. I’m a white girl. Pumpkin Spice Lattes, Uggs, and can’t-even.) What caused the breakdown of my to-even ability?

My Facebook feed full of reposted articles screaming things like “Over 350 mass shootings so far this year!” and “More mass shootings than sunrises this year!” That’s what.

All of which derived their “statistics” from one source: Reddit.

Yes, that wretched hive of scum and villainy. Which made news earlier this year for, among other things, banning a subreddit devoted to vilifying people of size and firing the coordinator of its popular “Ask Me Anything” feature.

Seems that there is an anti-gun subreddit, /r/GunsAreCool, devoted to collecting and disseminating information about gun incidents. Its moderators created a separate website, Mass Shooting Tracker, after /r/GunsAreCool was “brigaded” by gun rights supporters. The Mass Shooting Tracker defines a “mass shooting” as any incident, anywhere, in which at least four people are shot, but not necessarily killed. (Including the shooter{s}.) The Mass Shooting Tracker claims that Wednesday’s horror in San Bernardino, California, was the “355th” mass shooting in the United States in 2015. According to Mother Jones’ Mark Follman, writing in the New York Times yesterday:

It’s not clear why the Redditors use this much broader criteria. The founder of the “shooting tracker” project, who currently goes by the handle “Billy Speed,” told me it was his choice: “Three years ago I decided, all by myself, to change the United States’ definition of mass shooting.” It’s also not clear how many of those stories — many of them from local outlets, including scant detail — are accurate.

This, of course, differs from the definitions used by the FBI and by Mother Jones‘ well known mass shooting tracker. The FBI uses the term “mass killing,” to mean an incident in which at least three (four until 2013) people, not including the perpetrators(s), are killed in a single incident. Mother Jones defines a mass shooting thusly:

The attack must have occurred essentially in a single incident, in a public place;
We excluded crimes of armed robbery, gang violence, or domestic violence in a home, focusing on cases in which the motive appeared to be indiscriminate mass murder;
The killer, in accordance with the FBI criterion, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.
Using the FBI’s criteria, there have been five mass killings in 2015 involving firearms: San Bernardino (12/2/2015, 14 deaths), Colorado Springs (11/28/2015, 3 deaths), Roseburg, OR (10/1/15, 9 deaths), Chattanooga, TN (7/16/15, 5 deaths), Charleston, SC (6/18/15, 9 deaths). Using Mother Jones‘ criteria, there have been four mass shootings (the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting would not count as Mother Jones uses 4 deaths in its criteria).

355 mass shootings? Five? Four? Some claim that it doesn’t matter if there have been 355 or four, as even four are too many. Some claim that it doesn’t matter because we need to know about all deaths involving firearms, regardless whether they are a rampage shooting/publicity murder in a public place, an abusive husband murdering his wife and children just as she is getting ready to divorce him, or gang warfare in the inner city.

Maybe so, maybe not.

I believe definitions matter.

I believe definitions matter because I believe how we talk about problems matters. “355 mass shootings in 2015” sounds like a middle-class white female is at significant risk of a Sandy Hook- or San Bernardino-type rampage shooting/publicity murder while she sits at Starbucks nursing her Holiday Spice Flat White, when the reality is that the risk of being shot in a rampage shooting/ publicity murder is roughly the same as the risk of being struck by lightning.

I believe definitions matter because I believe root cause matters. “355 mass shootings in 2015” doesn’t differentiate among reasons for violence. There is a vast gulf in root cause between a rampage shooting/publicity murder and gang violence. There is a vast gulf in root cause between a domestic violence murder-suicide and a lonely, depressed, desperate person taking his own life. There is a vast gulf in root cause between a Sandy Hook- or Columbine-style school shooting and a drug deal gone wrong on a college campus.

If we lump all “mass shootings” under the same umbrella, we fail to acknowledge root causes.

If we fail to acknowledge root causes, we fail to tackle the causes of violence.

If we fail to tackle the causes of violence, there will be more “mass shootings.”

Of whatever definition.

I can’t even.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:18 pm
by BKinzey
SmokeFan wrote:I may have commented about that. http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/2015/1 ... cant-even/
Excellent blog entry. :thumbup:

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:29 pm
by beto
Excellent analysis. I just had the 355 number quoted to me.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:32 pm
by begemot
SmokeFan wrote:I may have commented about that. http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/2015/1 ... cant-even/
Love it.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:37 pm
by SmokeFan
Guys, go on Dacebook and share it.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:23 pm
by Bucolic
Thanks, Smoke. Very well written.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:33 pm
by TheViking
Excellent!

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:16 pm
by Inquisitor
SmokeFan wrote:Guys, go on Dacebook and share it.
You can also retweet it

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:15 pm
by sikacz
SmokeFan wrote:Guys, go on Dacebook and share it.
Done! :beer2:

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:56 pm
by DispositionMatrix
"...Died by a Gun..."
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/san ... ay-n478746
They claim to have gotten the info from Slate, so it's probably more Shooting Tracker data.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:41 pm
by TheHunterOfSkulls
It’s not clear why the Redditors use this much broader criteria. The founder of the “shooting tracker” project, who currently goes by the handle “Billy Speed,” told me it was his choice: “Three years ago I decided, all by myself, to change the United States’ definition of mass shooting.” It’s also not clear how many of those stories — many of them from local outlets, including scant detail — are accurate.
Not clear? It's obvious. They're using the broader criteria to inflate the numbers, scare people into thinking that at any moment they or their loved ones could be gunmurdered by NRA-sponsored mass murderers, and thereby generate pressure to create legislation they desire. Not sure why MJ doesn't understand what's going on, they practically raised this beast from a pup.

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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:38 pm
by beaurrr
Shannon Watts, a stay-at-home mom who created a Facebook page after the Newtown shooting that has grown into the national gun safety group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense, said she believes that while progress to reduce gun deaths among children has been slow, the Sandy Hook tragedy will one day be seen as a turning point.
Yes, that's all she is. A stay home mom. I must have her confused with that other Shannon Watts, the PR hack/Monsanto mouthpiece.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:05 am
by DispositionMatrix
Wired writer was slow to assess the impact of social media, which has been around for a few years now. Tweeted response to Shooting Tracker propaganda.
http://www.wired.com/2015/12/social-med ... ump-worse/
SHORTLY AFTER HEARING about the massacre in San Bernardino, California, I retweeted something that I soon regretted. In theory, it was benign—a link to a widely shared article about how 2015 had seen more mass shootings than days in the year. I added a single word of commentary: “whoa.”

Days later, however, Mother Jones editor Mark Follman wrote an op-ed for The New York Times explaining that that statistic, while technically true, is deeply misleading. Yes, hundreds of shootings in the United States have killed or injured at least four people this year, Follman wrote. But this year, the country has seen just four of the random, mass shootings we all live in fear of—the type we saw in San Bernardino and in Oregon, the type I thought I was referring to in that tweet. The original statistic still points to hard truths about gun violence in America, but not, necessarily, the random acts of violence we refer to as “mass shootings.”

I read Follman’s piece and thought back to how quickly and thoughtlessly I had shared the earlier article. I hadn’t taken a minute to consider the nuance that might lie behind those numbers. I wanted to contribute to the conversation, but the only contribution I made was to the glut of misinformation and fear-mongering that clouds both sides of the gun control debate—misinformation instantaneously spread far and wide on social media.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:08 am
by modernhamlet
Credit to the author for taking responsibility for their mistake. A rarity in journalism these days.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:28 pm
by LGBTGunner
They have scrubbed their website of the definition of Mass shooter.

Image

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:24 am
by PiratePenguin
TheHunterOfSkulls wrote:Not sure why MJ doesn't understand what's going on, they practically raised this beast from a pup.
Who's pulling the strings? The GrC people were the ones behind the MoJo "exposé" on Reddit's gun market, too.

Re: MJ editor opinion on Shooting Tracker "mass shooting" cl

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:29 am
by PiratePenguin
LGBTGunner wrote:They have scrubbed their website of the definition of Mass shooter.
They didn't follow that definition anyway, given that they included numerous non-shooting injuries to inflate their counts.