The CA handgun roster is pretty mysterious to me. I'm hoping some of you can help me understand it better.

I have the impression that 1911s, even clones, currently are given some kind of pass on the so-called safety features that apply to new semi-auto designs (like mag disconnect). I believe the reasoning is that the DESIGN (not the specific make/model in this case) predates the roster.

How this would apply to surplus 1911s is unknown to me.

But at least we have a much stronger argument now. The U.S. Federal government WANTS us to have these firearms, and to develop marksmanship skills with them. That is the mission of CMP, reaffirmed by the new law.

Elmo wrote:The CA handgun roster is pretty mysterious to me. I'm hoping some of you can help me understand it better.

I have the impression that 1911s, even clones, currently are given some kind of pass on the so-called safety features that apply to new semi-auto designs (like mag disconnect). I believe the reasoning is that the DESIGN (not the specific make/model in this case) predates the roster.

How this would apply to surplus 1911s is unknown to me.

But at least we have a much stronger argument now. The U.S. Federal government WANTS us to have these firearms, and to develop marksmanship skills with them. That is the mission of CMP, reaffirmed by the new law.

I really like the sound of the last paragraph and have been spreading similar on FB.

I'm interested in seeing what the price structure and amounts will be. In increments of 10k this will be interesting. If the price levels turnout to be in line with other surplus handguns this could be a very good thing.

sikacz wrote:I'm interested in seeing what the price structure and amounts will be. In increments of 10k this will be interesting. If the price levels turnout to be in line with other surplus handguns this could be a very good thing.

Here are a couple of questions for those of you who follow used gun prices more closely than I do:

How do the prices of CMP Garands compare to similar quality rifles from private parties or gun stores?

Last I checked, a completely refurbished CMP Special grade M1 (new stock and barrel, receiver and trigger group checked and certified by a CMP armorer) is still in the $1000 range. Can you do as well elsewhere?

The next question is, what would you expect to pay for a similarly refurbished USGI 1911 from a private party or gun store?

(I'm comparing refurbished because it's much harder to compare "luck-of-the-draw" grades...)

The answers to these questions might give us some idea of what to expect from CMP, price-wise.

THIS!
Considering, a brand new modern 1911 with better parts, slides, sights, and safeties can be had for under $700, these very old milsurps would be fairly priced in great condition at under $300, hell, $250. Don't count on it. I've looked at CMP prices for awhile, and not found hit or miss deals worth reaching into my pocket, and the refurbished too costly. The CMP bargain days have gone. They used to want to get rid of the surplus, and train new shooters. No longer. With Volunteer armies, it's not necessary to arm and train the general populace. Think about that.

Elmo wrote:

sikacz wrote: Last I checked, a completely refurbished CMP Special grade M1 (new stock and barrel, receiver and trigger group checked and certified by a CMP armorer) is still in the $1000 range. Can you do as well elsewhere?

The next question is, what would you expect to pay for a similarly refurbished USGI 1911 from a private party or gun store?

(I'm comparing refurbished because it's much harder to compare "luck-of-the-draw" grades...)

The answers to these questions might give us some idea of what to expect from CMP, price-wise.

rockyriverleather wrote:THIS!
Considering, a brand new modern 1911 with better parts, slides, sights, and safeties can be had for under $700, these very old milsurps would be fairly priced in great condition at under $300, hell, $250. Don't count on it. I've looked at CMP prices for awhile, and not found hit or miss deals worth reaching into my pocket, and the refurbished too costly. The CMP bargain days have gone. They used to want to get rid of the surplus, and train new shooters. No longer. With Volunteer armies, it's not necessary to arm and train the general populace. Think about that.

Elmo wrote:

sikacz wrote: Last I checked, a completely refurbished CMP Special grade M1 (new stock and barrel, receiver and trigger group checked and certified by a CMP armorer) is still in the $1000 range. Can you do as well elsewhere?

The next question is, what would you expect to pay for a similarly refurbished USGI 1911 from a private party or gun store?

(I'm comparing refurbished because it's much harder to compare "luck-of-the-draw" grades...)

The answers to these questions might give us some idea of what to expect from CMP, price-wise.

Dunno, the CMP mission still seems to be the same, and didn't they become a semi private non-profit several years ago further distancing themselves from any formal government intervention or change of mission?

I imagine these 2ill be in the 500-1000$ range, unless some miracle puts them under 500. Pure speculation on my part.

-edit-

The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq.). Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army's inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no federal funding.

Yeah, longer ago then I remember, but I am getting old...

The sad part is that there will be people who will pay that much.

Inquisitor wrote: I imagine these 2ill be in the 500-1000$ range, unless some miracle puts them under 500. Pure speculation on my part.

-edit-

The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq.). Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army's inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no federal funding.

Yeah, longer ago then I remember, but I am getting old...

I have seen GI 1911s for sale for as much as $1800. These are ones that were brought back after WWII and would be similar to what CMP will be selling. It will be interesting to see what CMP sells their 1911s for. It could bring the cost of other GI 1911s on the market down...

From crazy insane ($4000) down to moderately insane ($1800) doesn't make it a sane purchase.
There are too many people with too much money (Drs, DDDS, and all the currently working IT guys, apparently...no I'm not lookin at you!) just driving prices through the roof. If CMP pricing even at $1000, brings the market down, good. But anyone who pays that for a 75 year old weapon, with 99,000 others just like it, and has no provenance, well..."C'mon down! The Prices here are just insane!"

Frogger wrote:I have seen GI 1911s for sale for as much as $1800. These are ones that were brought back after WWII and would be similar to what CMP will be selling. It will be interesting to see what CMP sells their 1911s for. It could bring the cost of other GI 1911s on the market down...

rockyriverleather wrote:From crazy insane ($4000) down to moderately insane ($1800) doesn't make it a sane purchase.
There are too many people with too much money (Drs, DDDS, and all the currently working IT guys, apparently...no I'm not lookin at you!) just driving prices through the roof. If CMP pricing even at $1000, brings the market down, good. But anyone who pays that for a 75 year old weapon, with 99,000 others just like it, and has no provenance, well..."C'mon down! The Prices here are just insane!"

Frogger wrote:I have seen GI 1911s for sale for as much as $1800. These are ones that were brought back after WWII and would be similar to what CMP will be selling. It will be interesting to see what CMP sells their 1911s for. It could bring the cost of other GI 1911s on the market down...

Collectors tend to pay funny prices for the history. That said, plenty of under 500 1911's out there, some of them don't suck (I bought an Auto Ordnance that DID suck, but now its a dedicated 22lr). RIA comes to mind as quality.

I think my point about CMP pricing may have been misunderstood.

I have the impression that CMP prices are pretty darned good, compared to the open market. Not screaming deals, but fair, and maybe a bit better than fair. But I might not be as tuned in to the market prices as some others out there.

That said, I don't think we should be comparing to collector quality guns, which is what I assume those $3000-ish 1911s are.

If the CMP happens to stumble across a few collector quality 1911s, they will recognize that and price accordingly. I expect the vast majority of them will be like most Garands, good shooters with a patina of history, but not collector's items.

I have a clear recollection of when the government adopted the Beretta and the big reason was because all of the 1911s needed to be replaced. Totally wore out. Metal fatigue on the frames and barrels washed out. I hope people are prepared to have very expensive paper weights on their desks. This was very big news in all of the gun mags at the time.

eelj wrote:I have a clear recollection of when the government adopted the Beretta and the big reason was because all of the 1911s needed to be replaced. Totally wore out. Metal fatigue on the frames and barrels washed out. I hope people are prepared to have very expensive paper weights on their desks. This was very big news in all of the gun mags at the time.

I remember hearing that too, but the stated reason is not always the real reason, especially when $$million$ are at stake.

Those of you who carried service pistols, please estimate how many rounds did it shoot per year? I'll bet not many. And unlike high powered rifle barrels, pistol barrels last a LOOOONG time. Frames even longer.

I guess we'll see...

Elmo wrote:I think my point about CMP pricing may have been misunderstood.

I have the impression that CMP prices are pretty darned good, compared to the open market. Not screaming deals, but fair, and maybe a bit better than fair. But I might not be as tuned in to the market prices as some others out there.

That said, I don't think we should be comparing to collector quality guns, which is what I assume those $3000-ish 1911s are.

If the CMP happens to stumble across a few collector quality 1911s, they will recognize that and price accordingly. I expect the vast majority of them will be like most Garands, good shooters with a patina of history, but not collector's items.

I think you are spot on. TBH, the normal non-collectible Colt 1911's today are going for $800-$1000. I'd expect a normal shooter to be $700 or so, as it's still a Colt, and people will pay a bit more because of the pony.

On the Garand Side, I paid $1300 for my Springfield, which was arsenal refurbished in 1965. A comparable CMP version, not collectible, is about $1k, and the basic non-refurbs are far less, and they sell for more after someone gets it from them as there isn't a wait.

I don't expect screaming deals, but should be reasonable compared to market, even a bit under.

I've been reading not to hold your breath on this. There is other Mumbo-jumbo to deal with and any shipment the CMP receives expect about 2 years for them to go through them before they will ship.


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They probably aren't all Colts. Ithaca made a bunch as did Remington Rand thr type writer company and the most rare are Union Switch and Signal. They should be at least 70 years old and having been through 3 nasty and hard wars it will be interesting how many are still shootable. I hope the best ones weren't all destroyed during clintons reign of error.

eelj wrote:They probably aren't all Colts. Ithaca made a bunch as did Remington Rand thr type writer company and the most rare are Union Switch and Signal. They should be at least 70 years old and having been through 3 nasty and hard wars it will be interesting how many are still shootable. I hope the best ones weren't all destroyed during clintons reign of error.

I have a very old Remington Rand military issue 45. I didnt think anything of it until you said this. Now I am wondering about and if I should have refinished ? Maybe I should have left it original .. oh well. too late now..

A little levity from the CMP in my email this afternoon:

The NDAA 2016 has passed. We have no further information concerning the status of the 1911s. We will update our customers as we know more. Please do not email or call with questions regarding the 1911s. Our systems are overloaded.

Translation: Please stop calling. You all are seriously breaking us right now. We're turning off the phones and crying into a beer right now because of this.

shinzen wrote:A little levity from the CMP in my email this afternoon:

The NDAA 2016 has passed. We have no further information concerning the status of the 1911s. We will update our customers as we know more. Please do not email or call with questions regarding the 1911s. Our systems are overloaded.

Translation: Please stop calling. You all are seriously breaking us right now. We're turning off the phones and crying into a beer right now because of this.

I've put myself on their mailing lists for updates on shooting and sales.

how do you get one? Do you go through a dealer or what.