So, I was thinking of carrying my 10 inch Mtech using a horizontal sheath I made for it, but knowing the knife length limits I was wondering what the carry laws are for knives. Then I discovered my city and state both have ridiculous laws on knives, like most states do. Which I find funny , as I can strap my 44 mag to my hip, or conceal it in my waste band and thats not a problem, but a folding knife with a blade over 3.5 inches long , or a non folding knife of any kind carried concealed upon a person is a felony. And within St. Louis city limits, carrying a knife of any length or kind exposed is illegal. The State law allows for fixed knives of any length to be open carried, but not concealed.


And now I just ran across this from 2014

http://bearingarms.com/breaking-ct-supr ... amendment/



The Connecticut Supreme Court has recognized that the Second Amendment extends beyond firearms in State v. DeCiccio, after a Connecticut man moving to Massachusetts was arrested and convicted for transporting a dirk (a kind of long-bladed thrusting dagger used during the tall ship era, as well as ceremonially in certain cultures) and a police baton to his new home.

The court found that both kinds of non-firearms weapons are protected under the Second Amendment.

Knife length is by state law. I can carry my Mauser rifle anywhere pretty much, without a permit even - but I can't bring the bayonet for it...

...and clubs.

Tonfa, nunchuks, batons, clubs and bats are illegal under CA law.

I'd like to carry an expandable baton on hikes for dogs, but cannot.

I think these are the sorts of things an impromptu militia would carry and should be protected under the second amendment.

TheViking wrote:Knife length is by state law. I can carry my Mauser rifle anywhere pretty much, without a permit even - but I can't bring the bayonet for it...

Texas knife law is ludicrous. I can walk down the street with my AKM, as long as I leave my bayonet at home. The blade is too long by a quarter inch.

MO CCW allows carry of any length blade. 571 is not really totally clear, but as of August 28, 2014 all blades are legal for permit holders; switchblades, kabars, etc. Local laws can NOT override this.

Any size folding knife can be carried concealed in california. Carrying any sized fix blade knife concealed is illegal.

ErikO wrote:MO CCW allows carry of any length blade. 571 is not really totally clear, but as of August 28, 2014 all blades are legal for permit holders; switchblades, kabars, etc. Local laws can NOT override this.

ErikO, would you give this a look and tell me what you can figure out from it? Its suppose to be up to date 571

thanks..

http://www.knifeup.com/missouri-knife-laws/


Limits on Carry
You may conceal carry any pocketknife with a folding blade less than four inches
You may not conceal carry any other knife in Missouri, on your person or in your vehicle
You may open carry any knife that is legal own
In the case of State v. Dowdy, the Court found that a paring knife, concealed on Dowdy’s person, was a knife under Missouri law, and could not be conceal carried.

(12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument that is readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length;

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

(2) Sets a spring gun; or

(3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section



http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/chapt ... xt571.html

so here is what I can glean from the law. any pocketknife under 4 inches , is not called a "knife" in this law.

anyone who conceal carries a Knife , capable of lethal use, is committing a crime ..


Im just trying to figure this out. Id hate to lose my CCW , maybe my guns, and get a felony because some ambiguous law that would make it illegal for me to carry a knife.

http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bi ... B1061I.PDF

so now it gets more confusing, as a repeal to ammend section 571 has been introduced , which among other things, includes changing defenitions to

44 (12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or [bladed hand instrument that is readily capable
45 of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person] switchblade. For
46 purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife [with no blade more
47 than four inches in length] or hunting knife whether fixed blade or folding in nature;


but the 4" limit is still there.


they want to change what defines a switchblade ....
67 (20) "Switchblade knife", any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle
68 or sheath, and:
69 (a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on
70 the handle; or
71 (b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the
72 application of centrifugal force.




its bloody confusing .. And I think they do it on purpose so they can claim anything they want, anytime they want too, to



anyone they feel like screwing over. .


http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bi ... B1061I.PDF

Here it is condensed by statute:

571.030.1(1). A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

571.030.4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.


Pretty straight forward and Chris Koster's office agrees that this is how it works.

ETA: Switchblades are 100% legal to own, purchase or possess with a permit or endorsement that falls under 571.030.4.

And here is RSMO 571.010 as it sits today:

571.010. As used in this chapter, the following terms shall mean:
(1) "Antique, curio or relic firearm", any firearm so defined by the National Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. Title 26, Section 5845, and the United States Treasury/Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, 27 CFR Section 178.11:
(a) "Antique firearm" is any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, said ammunition not being manufactured any longer; this includes any matchlock, wheel lock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type ignition system, or replica thereof;
(b) "Curio or relic firearm" is any firearm deriving value as a collectible weapon due to its unique design, ignition system, operation or at least fifty years old, associated with a historical event, renown personage or major war;
(2) "Blackjack", any instrument that is designed or adapted for the purpose of stunning or inflicting physical injury by striking a person, and which is readily capable of lethal use;
(3) "Blasting agent", any material or mixture, consisting of fuel and oxidizer that is intended for blasting, but not otherwise defined as an explosive under this section, provided that the finished product, as mixed for use of shipment, cannot be detonated by means of a numbered 8 test blasting cap when unconfined;
(4) "Concealable firearm", any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, measured from the face of the bolt or standing breech;
(5) "Deface", to alter or destroy the manufacturer's or importer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark;
(6) "Detonator", any device containing a detonating charge that is used for initiating detonation in an explosive, including but not limited to, electric blasting caps of instantaneous and delay types, nonelectric blasting caps for use with safety fuse or shock tube and detonating cord delay connectors;
(7) "Explosive weapon", any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb or similar device designed or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death, serious physical injury, or substantial property damage; or any device designed or adapted for delivering or shooting such a weapon. For the purposes of this subdivision, the term "explosive" shall mean any chemical compound mixture or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion, including but not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cords, igniter cords, and igniters or blasting agents;
(8) "Firearm", any weapon that is designed or adapted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(9) "Firearm silencer", any instrument, attachment, or appliance that is designed or adapted to muffle the noise made by the firing of any firearm;
(10) "Gas gun", any gas ejection device, weapon, cartridge, container or contrivance other than a gas bomb that is designed or adapted for the purpose of ejecting any poison gas that will cause death or serious physical injury, but not any device that ejects a repellant or temporary incapacitating substance;
(11) "Intoxicated", substantially impaired mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body;
(12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument that is readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length;
(13) "Knuckles", any instrument that consists of finger rings or guards made of a hard substance that is designed or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death by striking a person with a fist enclosed in the knuckles;
(14) "Machine gun", any firearm that is capable of firing more than one shot automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger;
(15) "Projectile weapon", any bow, crossbow, pellet gun, slingshot or other weapon that is not a firearm, which is capable of expelling a projectile that could inflict serious physical injury or death by striking or piercing a person;
(16) "Rifle", any firearm designed or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire a projectile through a rifled bore by a single function of the trigger;
(17) "Short barrel", a barrel length of less than sixteen inches for a rifle and eighteen inches for a shotgun, both measured from the face of the bolt or standing breech, or an overall rifle or shotgun length of less than twenty-six inches;
(18) "Shotgun", any firearm designed or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire a number of shot or a single projectile through a smooth bore barrel by a single function of the trigger;
(19) "Spring gun", any fused, timed or non-manually controlled trap or device designed or adapted to set off an explosion for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death;
(20) "Switchblade knife", any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle or sheath, and:
(a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or
(b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.

Dropped some knowledge on the knifelaw folks.

ErikO wrote:Here it is condensed by statute:

571.030.1(1). A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

571.030.4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.


Pretty straight forward and Chris Koster's office agrees that this is how it works.

ETA: Switchblades are 100% legal to own, purchase or possess with a permit or endorsement that falls under 571.030.4.

THank you very much sir. I just want to make sure as police and judges can really be pedantic about this stuff.

senorgrand wrote:Any size folding knife can be carried concealed in california. Carrying any sized fix blade knife concealed is illegal.

On the plus side, you can open carry any length of fixed blade. The folding knife thing varies by city, as does the open carry law though. As a state we are strangely progressive on knife carry laws compared to some other states.

shinzen wrote:

senorgrand wrote:Any size folding knife can be carried concealed in california. Carrying any sized fix blade knife concealed is illegal.

On the plus side, you can open carry any length of fixed blade. The folding knife thing varies by city, as does the open carry law though. As a state we are strangely progressive on knife carry laws compared to some other states.

In Texas you can be damned if you carry open or concealed with a knife even if it is your working tools. My son found that out when he was walking from his car to where he worked as a chef. Wearing his chef coat and carrying his 10 inch chef knife. The police stopped him had him spread eagled until the restaurant manager came out and verified that he worked there. He now carries the knives he uses in a knife roll up canvas bag which could be called carrying concealed. As he said you don't leave knives costing $100+ a piece in a restaurant where they will come up missing or ruined.

ErikO wrote:Dropped some knowledge on the knifelaw folks.

CDFingers

When Wisconsin passed its concealed weapons law, it allowed any weapon except switch blades, which I thought was bizarre. Now our brilliant legislature has passed a law that allows carrying them. I hadn't heard any mentioned of them since I was a teenager in the early 1950's. In my many years of law enforcement work, I saw kitchen, fishing, hunting and ordinary pocket knives used in crimes, but never a switch blade.

JoelB wrote:When Wisconsin passed its concealed weapons law, it allowed any weapon except switch blades, which I thought was bizarre. Now our brilliant legislature has passed a law that allows carrying them. I hadn't heard any mentioned of them since I was a teenager in the early 1950's. In my many years of law enforcement work, I saw kitchen, fishing, hunting and ordinary pocket knives used in crimes, but never a switch blade.

Leftovers from the Zoot Suit Riot. Fear of Latinos with quick opening blades went nationwide in the '40's.

ErikO wrote:

JoelB wrote:When Wisconsin passed its concealed weapons law, it allowed any weapon except switch blades, which I thought was bizarre. Now our brilliant legislature has passed a law that allows carrying them. I hadn't heard any mentioned of them since I was a teenager in the early 1950's. In my many years of law enforcement work, I saw kitchen, fishing, hunting and ordinary pocket knives used in crimes, but never a switch blade.

Leftovers from the Zoot Suit Riot. Fear of Latinos with quick opening blades went nationwide in the '40's.

West Side Story must have scared a lot of people ..

dandad wrote:

ErikO wrote:

JoelB wrote:When Wisconsin passed its concealed weapons law, it allowed any weapon except switch blades, which I thought was bizarre. Now our brilliant legislature has passed a law that allows carrying them. I hadn't heard any mentioned of them since I was a teenager in the early 1950's. In my many years of law enforcement work, I saw kitchen, fishing, hunting and ordinary pocket knives used in crimes, but never a switch blade.

Leftovers from the Zoot Suit Riot. Fear of Latinos with quick opening blades went nationwide in the '40's.

West Side Story must have scared a lot of people ..

The Other has scared folks for a long, long time.

ZOMG brown people! Quick ban pot, guns, and switch blades! Sad but true how our countries politics have played out

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

It's kind of unfortunate that both knives and guns have these ridiculous laws and regulations attached to them.

Switchblade bans are ridiculous. I used to EDC a folder with a spring assisted release legally (lots of boxes to cut everyday =) ), but come on, that is just as fast as a switchblade!

I now EDC a spyderco with the thumbhole release. Slower than my spring assist, but we're talking .5 seconds slower.

Assault knives right?

I've never understood why switchblades are treated so differently. Seems to me that their blades are often wimpy and prone to breaking, and whatever speed advantage they have would be negligible. I can flick my carry blade open pretty fast- does that make me more dangerous? (except for that time when it flung out of my hand and almost speared my cat) I never carried a knife until my last couple of moves, and now it's in my pocket all the time. I'm surprised how often I use the thing.

In 2014 my home state (TN) repealed all state laws on knives and put in a pre-emption clause as well. So basically there are no longer any knife restrictions, and local laws can't override it. No blade length limits, automatics OK, open carry, fixed blade, whatever. What I own and prefer to carry, knife-wise, was legal before the law change so no change for me. Former limit was 4" and the closest thing I have to that is an old Buck 110. I pretty much just carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife (alox-handled Cadet) and maybe a Case slipjoint. I do leave a Zero Tolerance or Benchmade folder in the car, but those are still under 3.5" and were perfectly legal before the laws were repealed.

However, if I want to carry a club or baton I have to get training and carry a card with me showing I passed the training class (4 hour class, $50 fee). I had a fair amount of baton training in the police academy in 1980 (with refresher training in later years during in-service training), but I don't guess that counts.

I might just go get the training - there's a class offered at my local range. I don't plan to go around carrying a nightstick in general but going out for walks in the neighborhood, I'd rather have a stick than any other type of weapon to fend off stray dogs if the need arose.

jc57 wrote:In 2014 my home state (TN) repealed all state laws on knives and put in a pre-emption clause as well. So basically there are no longer any knife restrictions, and local laws can't override it. No blade length limits, automatics OK, open carry, fixed blade, whatever. What I own and prefer to carry, knife-wise, was legal before the law change so no change for me. Former limit was 4" and the closest thing I have to that is an old Buck 110. I pretty much just carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife (alox-handled Cadet) and maybe a Case slipjoint. I do leave a Zero Tolerance or Benchmade folder in the car, but those are still under 3.5" and were perfectly legal before the laws were repealed.

However, if I want to carry a club or baton I have to get training and carry a card with me showing I passed the training class (4 hour class, $50 fee). I had a fair amount of baton training in the police academy in 19080 (with refresher training in later years during in-service training), but I don't guess that counts.

I might just go get the training - there's a class offered at my local range. I don't plan to go around carrying a nightstick in general but going out for walks in the neighborhood, I'd rather have a stick than any other type of weapon to fend off stray dogs if the need arose.

being a Gimp I use a cane. I was considering some cane / stick fighting classes myself .. for those times where drawing a weapon might not be a first choice or necessary.