Acknowledgment that we are already here, that we are human beings with a right to be, that our mere presence cannot be deemed illegal or our existence alien.

Affirmation that we are to be treated with dignity and respect, not just because of who we are, but who you are – historic beneficiaries of immigrant struggles for the freedom to be.

Recognition of our right to be presented with a path to citizenship/residency as the first priority of future immigration policy combined with interim deferment of all law-abiding Undocumented Americans against detention and deportation.

This is a step in the right direction.

Link:
http://www.unitedwestay.org/blog/finall ... -americans

i disagree.
edited cause i want to see where this goes by itself.

I agree with the OP, this quote from the article sums up why fairly well:

It’s time to end all the chest-thumping rhetoric about billions being poured into walls, military hardware and drones before any citizenship path is even discussed. Instead we must focus on making the most of the potential of the Undocumented Americans already here – not just for us, but for the country’s global competitiveness and the reinvigoration of its founding principles.

I'm pro-immigration, but it's a pretty ridiculous document. Seems to be based on the idea that if you start far enough in an extreme direction, by the time you're done negotiating, you'll get what you actually wanted in the first place. There are some good, moral ideas in there. But they're sitting next to several bad ideas/non-starters.

Acknowledgment that we are already here, that we are human beings with a right to be, that our mere presence cannot be deemed illegal or our existence alien.

I'm not really sure how to interpret this other than "We think we have a right to be here and your laws don't apply to us".

Affirmation that we are to be treated with dignity and respect, not just because of who we are, but who you are – historic beneficiaries of immigrant struggles for the freedom to be.

Works for me. Dehumanization is wrong, no matter who you're talking about...

Recognition of our right to be presented with a path to citizenship/residency as the first priority of future immigration policy combined with interim deferment of all law-abiding Undocumented Americans against detention and deportation.

Here's the crux of it. A demand for a) Path to Citizenship and b) immediate amnesty as a pre-condition for negotiations. Yeah... good luck with that.

Compelled authorization of birth certificates for our U.S.-born children to ensure their constitutionally guaranteed right to citizenship.

Absolutely. This practice is a violation of a US citizen's civil rights. Period.

Protection against cruel and unusual punishment, including the separation of our immediate families and incarceration without charges, hearings or representation.

I'm fine with the idea of due process applying to everyone. But the separation of families clause seems unreasonable. You want your whole family in a jail cell with you?

Access to non-discriminating public education and in-state tuition to ensure that our children realize their full potential for themselves and the country.

Fine with me. Illegal Immigrants pay taxes too. Rather than having their kids end up as uneducated troublemakers, put them in school where they belong.

Guarantee of wage equality with a legal right to petition for wage theft or workplace mistreatment without jeopardizing our immigration status.

Devil in the details issue. I agree there should be more protections in place against unscrupulous employers in principle. But until you're working "in the sunshine", so to speak, what exactly do you expect the government to do?

Assurance of humanitarian treatment, including medical care.

What does this mean, exactly? 10% of Americans don't have much better access to medical care (read: emergency room only).

Protection against detention or deportation when we report a crime as a victim of witness.

Fine with me.

Guarantee of the Declaration’s unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Meaningless feel-good jibberish...

Then again, the entire thing is frustratingly vague and broad.

Guarantee of the Declaration’s unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Nonsense. A significant fractions of the US citizens don't have those rights either: Those under the age of majority (a kindergarten kid does not have very much liberty), those who have been declared incompetent by a court (typically the elderly suffering from dementia), and all those who have been convicted are either currently in jail or on probation, or have a temporary or permanent loss of their rights (like the Lautenberg prohibition of guns and ammo after a DV conviction).

Not very "unalianable", isn't it?

A lot of the other demands are similarly laughable. Sure, I'd love to get a guarantee of in-state tuition for the college where my daughter wants to study ... which happens to be a neighboring state, where her aunt and uncle live. Oops. The guarantee of medical treatment was already mentioned above. Another quirk: While we all think that the 14th amendment guarantees ius soli, that is already wrong, as the 14A has an explicit exception (intended for consular and diplomatic newborns).

Whoever wrote this either has no clue, or is deliberately throwing wrong facts around for the purpose of rhetoric. Now, where they are right: It would be good if the US constitution was amended to start with respect for people. I like the way the South African constitution phrases it: "Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected." But to us in the US, the constitution is a holy cow, and the proposal to throw and redo it (this time getting is right) is completely unacceptable to the people who have, over the last >200 years, learned how to abuse the quirks of the US system for their own benefit, and those people are the vast majority of the people already here.

However, the following is true: The US immigration system is totally broken. That's true in multiple respects. Immigration law is overly complicated, and designed to prevent most immigration, yet immigration is economically necessary. Second, the implementation of immigration law (through customs and the INS/USCIS agency) is terribly inefficient and slow, usually needlessly; I used to refer to the pre-9/11 agency as the "IPS or Immigration Prevention Service". And in the last few years, the tenor of the public debate has become quite xenophobic, nativist, and anti-immigrant, partially under pressure from tea party types. I can understand that immigrants (legal or otherwise) are quite fed up with the US.

I am one who also dislikes the chest-thumping rhetoric about spending billions on walls and such. I figure it's silly drivel associated with presidential primaries, though. It's certainly not debate. Immigration is one of those special topics that seems to lose all nuance and drives people to extreme positions.

I don't think much of the article in the OP, honestly. I do think illegal immigrants should be treated with respect and dignity, have access to the same (lousy) healthcare system as the rest of us, and be allowed to the same due process as anyone else. Many, if not most, have come here to work hard and make better lives for themselves and their families. I think they should also be advocated for and given the same workplace protections and wages as anyone else doing the same job.

The argument that 'we're already here' and thus should let bygones be bygones is untenable. Except for those children who don't know any better, or those who were born here (as citizens, rightfully), undocumented immigrants know full well they are skirting the rules. There are many millions of immigrants waiting to enter this country from all over the world who have been doing so, patiently, for years, and a policy of 'we're already here' is both profoundly unfair and unsound.

I think there is merit in work programs, depending on the language. I have no truck with temporary work programs, and immigration is economically beneficial and vital. I totally agree that the immigration system here is broken, and I totally agree that liberal principles should guide its fixing. I just don't think what is proposed in the article is the fix.

I'm not for building walls, but neither do I appreciate the tone of the author. One other thing that disturbed me was the reference to the influx of Asian immigrants and how their numbers are increasing. What was the point of that?

I'm a believer in human rights and human dignity, but I do believe nations have a right to control immigration. Virtually no developed nation allows everyone citizenship immediately upon request...or upon demand.

Anti immigration activists insist that the undocumented are or will be a burden to society. Doubling down on policies that stop immigrants from working, going to school, driving cars and so on only ensures that they become just that. Creating a permanent underclass benefits no one.

Greengunner wrote:Anti immigration activists insist that the undocumented are or will be a burden to society. Doubling down on policies that stop immigrants from working, going to school, driving cars and so on only ensures that they become just that. Creating a permanent underclass benefits no one.

This.

Greengunner wrote:Anti immigration activists insist that the undocumented are or will be a burden to society. Doubling down on policies that stop immigrants from working, going to school, driving cars and so on only ensures that they become just that. Creating a permanent underclass benefits no one.

When I lived in Orange, CA, there was always a segment of the population in SoCal who were virulently anti-immigrant and the arguments they proffered were familiar: They're criminals; They're diseased; They suck resources and are bad for the economy; They'll take your jobs. All of this, of course, is largely false and served mainly as a fig leaf for the real, racist motivation. The economic argument has been proven patently false by economists, save for deleterious effects on the lowest wage, uneducated workforce. (which itself needs access to affordable healthcare and better wages, regardless) In any case, the net economic benefit from illegal immigrants is solidly positive.

I agree with you completely that they should be allowed to work (with all the taxes, workplace protections, and benefits that go along with that), that they should be allowed a license to drive, and that their children should be allowed to go to school. Because, again, the benefits to both them and the surrounding society are large and positive. Illegal immigrants are here, and I don't think the way to address that is through mass deportation. Rather, I believe illegal immigrants should be brought into a legal framework, a la a temporary work program of some sort.

For citizenship? I think they need to get in line like everyone else. It's a process and, though it sucks, it's right that they should have to go through it.

The anti-immigration arguments used today are some of the same used against some of our forebears since before we were the United States. The newcomers have heard the same song and dance for over 200 years. the you can't trust the, pick any new immigrant group, the will lie, cheat, steal, are drunkards, dope addicts, will rape you wife and daughters etc.

What is sad, we don't want to accept that we are the reason so many immigrants are coming to us. The refugees from central American countries where we have overthrown elected governments to put our dictators in power and created death squads that kill innocent women and children.the Mexicans that can't farm and make a living because of American Big Ag under cutting corn prices under the NAFTA agreements. We have accepted political religious and economic refugees from other parts of the world over the years, Jews, Cuba, Vietnam, Middle East, Sudan, Ireland, Italy, Russia, Germany, China, Korea, but not south of the border, down Mexico way. When they arrive we treat them with insults, berate their languages, customs , religions, skin colors, force them into menial jobs. But by the third generation they have become Americans and are doing the same thing to the next group of immigrants. As we have taken from each group parts of their language, diets, and customs and made them part of America.

Let's just give the ones here a resident Alien card and treat them the same as any other immigrant and be able to become citizens just like most of our Parents, Grandparents, or Great Grandparents.

Otherwise lets pass a law that states your not a citizen unless you can trace some of your families ancestry back in the US to before 1850.

In the interests of disclosure, elements of my family came on a slow boat from Hamburg in 1936, and my wife became a naturalized US citizen after we were married. Immigrants are a good thing.

The Right to Vote
The Right to be elected to office
The Right to travel freely
The Right to be employed/work without a government permit.

Those are the four, the only four, rights granted by Citizenship.

I have no issue with anyone physically in this country having access to their natural rights as long as they are not infringing the rights of others.

ErikO wrote:The Right to Vote
The Right to be elected to office
The Right to travel freely
The Right to be employed/work without a government permit.

Those are the four, the only four, rights granted by Citizenship.

I have no issue with anyone physically in this country having access to their natural rights as long as they are not infringing the rights of others.

The first two are the only ones granted by citizenship. The last two are not as evidenced by trying to fly within the US without showing proper picture ID to a TSA agent or be on the no fly list and try and fly.

The right o work only if you show certain documents of citizenship so employers can fill out an I-9 form allowing you to work.

If you are an alien and have a resident alien card you can do the last two with the same restrictions as a citizen.

Edited Be convicted of a felony and you lose the first two rights even though your a citizen.