Good read: http://ideas.time.com/2012/12/19/viewpo ... o-the-nra/

Maybe leave a link to the club page in the comments section and try to grow and oust the NRA?

M4Builder wrote:Maybe leave a link to the club page in the comments section and try to grow and oust the NRA?

But we need to finish that mission statement first. Compile the ideas that have been collected here from our members regarding responsible gun laws and regulations and present those ideas to our representitives as an alternative to the NRA's usuall stance. Otherwise I like it.

Oh and great idea. Good article. But I'm not sure Mark Zuckerberg is the guy for the job.

Alternatives? It's been tried before...

-American Firearms Association (not mentioned in the article)
-Americans for Gun Safety (mentioned in the article)
-American Hunters and Shooters Association, AHSA (also mentioned)

All failed.

I hate to think what kind of schism would happen in this group if it were to adopt similar stances as those defunct organizations.

Xela

Let's just stay a club.

GuitarsandGuns wrote:Let's just stay a club.

Xela

Xela wrote:Alternatives? It's been tried before...

-American Firearms Association (not mentioned in the article)
-Americans for Gun Safety (mentioned in the article)
-American Hunters and Shooters Association, AHSA (also mentioned)

All failed.

I hate to think what kind of schism would happen in this group if it were to adopt similar stances as those defunct organizations.

Xela

It would be ugly. I think we have something to add to the larger cultural conversation, but at this point we do that FOR SHOOTERS by providing a social space and some educational activities. We allow shooters to engage with other shooters without the fog of the right wing. That is no small mission.

I for one believe there might be a place for a "moderate" (I hate that word) gun owner/hunter organization. I do not believe that organization should be LGC.

I think our contribution on this issue is to attempt to separate the gun issue from the semi-fictitious left-right divide of US politics. That is just as important and revolutionary an effort in the current political climate.

GuitarsandGuns wrote:Let's just stay a club.

GG said it better than I did.

Just a thought. I've thought about creating a new organization for gun owners (both domestic and international) to be recognized in government and the UN like the NRA. I ran across the ISSF (International Shooting Sports Federation) but they are for Olympic type shooting. I want something with Olympic shooting as well as all other types of competitions and self defense.

Am I dreaming too much?

Why?

I have this discussion with the righties when they get all pissy about the ACLU. Sure, they might fight for some stuff you don't agree with, but, in the end, isn't it better to have people fighting for more liberty????

Since the ACLU has the stance it does on the second, someone needs to be out there fighting like the 500 pound gorilla.

I personally wish both the ACLU and the NRA the best of luck in all their endeavors.

M4Builder wrote:Just a thought. I've thought about creating a new organization for gun owners (both domestic and international) to be recognized in government and the UN like the NRA. I ran across the ISSF (International Shooting Sports Federation) but they are for Olympic type shooting. I want something with Olympic shooting as well as all other types of competitions and self defense.

Am I dreaming too much?

Money. Get a bunch of it.

Start small and build?

We are a CMP and USAS (the US Olympic Shooting org) affiliated club...

M4Builder wrote:Start small and build?

What's the small version of having enough money to support a staff to do things? Hell, you need $200k a year to support servers, office, and mailings and one paid full-time staffer to organize the volunteers. $200k a year is peanuts in the world of politics, but it is quite a feat to gather that much from regular folks without the seed money to do the fundraising.

Would anything be essentially different with LGC as an alternative to the NRA? If the mission of LGC is to maintain the status quo of gun laws & rights, or even expand gun rights, the only difference I see is ... a gun club for liberals. You're there already.

OldScratch wrote:Would anything be essentially different with LGC as an alternative to the NRA? If the mission of LGC is to maintain the status quo of gun laws & rights, or even expand gun rights, the only difference I see is ... a gun club for liberals. You're there already.

If the status quo were the goal, sure. If the mission is to ensure or expand gun rights AND bring meaningfull discussion to the table on reducing gun violence at the same time then that would be an entirely different animal all together. Just saying.

Also, I have a question. From the homepage:
"The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a voice for gun-owning liberals and moderates in the national conversation on gun rights, gun legislation, firearms safety, and shooting sports."
How do we do that if all our arguments are purely academic, amongst our selves and limited to this forum? I'm not saying that we go out and supplant the NRA (although I wish someone would) but couldn't this club organize some sort of response or organize a letter campaign to the Vice President's new commission? Shouldn't a club with our mission statement do at least that?

The ACLU national office see RKBA as a group issue. Fortunately, the MO office is MUCH more behind the idea of it being an Individual civil right.

Fukshot wrote: I think our contribution on this issue is to attempt to separate the gun issue from the semi-fictitious left-right divide of US politics. That is just as important and revolutionary an effort in the current political climate.

Exactly. I welcome lots of other people to step up to the plate and form their own alternatives to the NRA. There are two others that I can think of:

Democrats for Gun Ownership - although they are fairly quiet and I seem to remember us having some misgivings about their leadership.

Independent Firearms Owners Association - led by the infamous Richard Feldman. They haven't done much that I can think of but Feldman is constantly on the news or writing on HuffPo about guns.

We choose the name "liberal" for a reason. And its exactly the reason FS stated above.

Just for clarity, we have a mission statement:

"The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a voice for gun-owning liberals and moderates in the national conversation on gun rights, gun legislation, firearms safety, and shooting sports. We serve as a national forum for all people, irrespective of their personal political beliefs, to discuss firearms ownership, firearms use, and the enjoyment of firearms-related activities free from the destructive elements of political extremism that dominate this subject on the national scale. We also actively develop and foster a variety of programs for the purpose of firearms training and firearms safety education, for both gun owners and non-gun owners. "

The only thing we don't have are "planks" or "positions" about various gun related topics. We had them and found them to be a bit vague and that they needed work.

As a club with a small membership, our main focus is on education and growing the club. This forum is simply a place to build community and provide an outlet and safe haven for us all. Allowing us to speak our mind about guns and discuss things in a constructive fashion. We have written letters to a couple of politicians in the past as the case came up. Currently, we have formed a "task force" of health care workers that are LGC members. We will be meeting this Sunday. I have no idea what may come of it but if something tangible and meaningful does, then we will craft a letter to send it off to Congress and the Whitehouse. I will be sending out a newsletter to the membership after that endeavor is completed.

Fukshot wrote:

M4Builder wrote:Start small and build?

What's the small version of having enough money to support a staff to do things? Hell, you need $200k a year to support servers, office, and mailings and one paid full-time staffer to organize the volunteers. $200k a year is peanuts in the world of politics, but it is quite a feat to gather that much from regular folks without the seed money to do the fundraising.

I was meaning start like a club then as more people join and donate, build on that to eventually gain the strength the NRA has.

I like the club as it is.
I like that we get so many different viewpoints on the gun issues that we all care about.
I like that the information here is sane and without hysteria that is so prevalent in the larger gun community.
I don't contribute as much as some folks here, but I still feel as if we are all friends and that we can get along. That to me is the best part.

Thank for the forum!!!

mark wrote:...As a club with a small membership, our main focus is on education and growing the club. This forum is simply a place to build community and provide an outlet and safe haven for us all. Allowing us to speak our mind about guns and discuss things in a constructive fashion. We have written letters to a couple of politicians in the past as the case came up. Currently, we have formed a "task force" of health care workers that are LGC members. We will be meeting this Sunday. I have no idea what may come of it but if something tangible and meaningful does, then we will craft a letter to send it off to Congress and the Whitehouse. I will be sending out a newsletter to the membership after that endeavor is completed.

Mark. I was unaware there was a task force. Thats great. Just the type of thing I was thinking of infact. Thank you and good luck on Sunday.

M4Builder wrote:

Fukshot wrote:

M4Builder wrote:Start small and build?

What's the small version of having enough money to support a staff to do things? Hell, you need $200k a year to support servers, office, and mailings and one paid full-time staffer to organize the volunteers. $200k a year is peanuts in the world of politics, but it is quite a feat to gather that much from regular folks without the seed money to do the fundraising.

I was meaning start like a club then as more people join and donate, build on that to eventually gain the strength the NRA has.

Isn't that this?

I have been getting the vibe that not many people here want that to happen.

I'd like it to happen but until we come up with a truckload of money, the time (all of us have regular careers) and I think, the energy, we're just gonna be content being an alternative to the knuckle dragging boards. Now, if someone wants to pay me LaPierre money, I'll gladly park my truck and start spreading fear