BluedogCJ wrote:

Ultravox wrote:Yeah. I don't really understand the single-issue voters.

I'm voting for Obama because Romney (and all the other Republicans) scare the hell out of me.

^^^^ this is exactly right. I hate to say this but I would rather lose the right to buy an AR or AK, than the right for my daughter to have a choice in her own body. Not to mention the tax issues and more of the same policies that Bush implemented. Please don't get me wrong, I will fight tooth and nail to protect every firearm freedom we have, I also support Obama on all of the other issues he stands for.

I wish I could say the same, but I can't. I'm not a single issue voter either though.

I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

If only both sides could like Libertarians more, but both conservatives AND liberals seem to hate Libertarians, like they are so crazy, i.e. Ron Paul. In my opinion, it is a sad state of affairs when believing in freedom is somehow crazy or too extreme. (btw, I'm a social Libertarian, not economic)

atxgunguy wrote:

Collector1337 wrote:Literally the only thing I can count on that is still made in the USA is my guns and ammo.

That is except for my European made ones of course, like HKs, Glocks, etc. and cheapo Russian steel case ammo.

Although, my AR has grown on me quite a bit and has become my overall favorite firearm, all parts made in the USA. Thank you Eugene Stoner.

Oh, Russian steel case ammo. I loves me some Tula 7.62x39.

I have bought (and will continue to buy) only American-made guns. Ruger (Arizona), Sig (New Hampshire), and Beretta (Maryland).

Yeah, all mine are too except for my USP, my Glock, and my Desert Eagle that was made in Israel, but Desert Eagles are made in my state of Minnesota now.

My Beretta 92fs is also made in USA, but they are actually Italian.

Many Sigs are made in the USA now as well, but they are German like HK.

They obviously OUTSOURCE to the US from Europe for legal reasons and the huge market here. So, the jobs are here, which is good.

Ruger, 100% American, I own 3.

Before my views on guns started evolving, I used to think that assault weapons should be banned, we needed more restrictions, etc. I no longer feel that way, being able to honestly examine the other side now.

However, even back when I favored bans and such, it was never an issue that would have caused me to vote for someone. What I mean is that even those people who favor some bans usually don't vote on just that issue. Yet, many many gun owners do vote on just that issue. I think this alienates an entire group of people who probably have more in common (economically) with the Democrats. After all, what do poor Southerners actually have to gain from the Republicans?

If the Democrats were smart they'd declare the ban on assault weapons not only unnecessary and useless, but politically harmful.

I think us liberals who own guns, shoot guns, like guns, need to introduce other liberals to the joys of guns. Take this damn issue back from the Republicans who talk a lot, but ultimately do nothing.

dollhog wrote:If the Democrats were smart they'd declare the ban on assault weapons not only unnecessary and useless, but politically harmful.

Pelosi and Reid already did that in '09. Feinstein missed the memo...

There is work to be done for sure.

Collector1337 wrote: I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

WOW!

Fukshot wrote:I'm reminded of something I once heard. I wish I could give proper credit, but I can't remember where.

A Libertarian is someone who can't distinguish between oppression and inconvenience.

I never said I would give up my right to own AR's or AK's, just the right to future purchase. I just cannot imagine a country where gay people are not allowed the same freedoms as ANY other citizen, or women have the control of their own body. I will NEVER give up the rifles I purchased and own. I just cannot imagine voting for the other guy just to keep an AWB from happening. I hate that firearms are even an issue. They are an everyday part of my life. I shoot competitions monthly, and target shoot at least twice a week. I carry every hour I am awake, and own many,many of the rifles they would go after, including the 50bmg that the media has such a field day with. My daughters choices mean more than anything else in my life. So to say I am hurt by the AWB comments are an understatement. I hope that it will not gain ground. Hopefully there will be enough people to oppose it and stop it from ever seeing daylight.

On the up-side, the looming hi-cap ban, panic buying frenzy and inflated prices should serve well to convince a partner of the need to buy some more mags and other goodies this week.

Glad I got those 30 rnd Thermolds

Doc wrote:On the up-side, the looming hi-cap ban, panic buying frenzy and inflated prices should serve well to convince a partner of the need to buy some more mags and other goodies this week.

I have no need of such convincing in my relationship, but somehow I feel like I'd rather invent my own lie than use one from Wayne.

BluedogCJ wrote: ... I just cannot imagine a country where gay people are not allowed the same freedoms as ANY other citizen, or women have the control of their own body...

you must not be from around these parts.

here in the USA, LGBT persons are not afforded the same freedoms as every other citizen and women still have to worry about what nine people whom, they don't know, will decide about women's rights as far as women's bodies are concerned.

You must be from Canada, or France, or Scandinavia, or England....well, I am not so sure about England....

wait a minute...you're pulling my leg right? I went back and looked at your intro...says you're from NC...North Canada is called the Yukon Territories....you almost had me.

(just fun-en with ya you understand)

Anyway, welcome!

sorry, I missed your intro....glad you found us! What is that monster on your intro thread?

ErikO wrote:Glad I got those 30 rnd Thermolds

Glad I stuck with SKS 10 rounders.

Xela

Fukshot wrote:

Collector1337 wrote: I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

WOW!

Fukshot wrote:I'm reminded of something I once heard. I wish I could give proper credit, but I can't remember where.

A Libertarian is someone who can't distinguish between oppression and inconvenience.

Xela

Xela wrote:

ErikO wrote:Glad I got those 30 rnd Thermolds

Glad I stuck with SKS 10 rounders.

Xela

I have a NIB 75 rounder for my SKS, which I will sell a week before the election, after the rumors I start have time to make the rounds. I should be able to sell it for enough to finance a new Redhawk.

I might sell my evil black drum-fed Saiga-12 a week before inauguration at a huge mark-up on republicanrifles.com

rolandson wrote:

BluedogCJ wrote: ... I just cannot imagine a country where gay people are not allowed the same freedoms as ANY other citizen, or women have the control of their own body...

you must not be from around these parts.

here in the USA, LGBT persons are not afforded the same freedoms as every other citizen and women still have to worry about what nine people whom, they don't know, will decide about women's rights as far as women's bodies are concerned.

You must be from Canada, or France, or Scandinavia, or England....well, I am not so sure about England....

wait a minute...you're pulling my leg right? I went back and looked at your intro...says you're from NC...North Canada is called the Yukon Territories....you almost had me.

(just fun-en with ya you understand)

Anyway, welcome!

sorry, I missed your intro....glad you found us! What is that monster on your intro thread?

No, I am fighting as hard as I can to keep someone in office that finally believes the LGBT have rights, rather than a damnation from the bible. It burns me up , the stand that Romney/Ryan take on this issue. It seems either I have to vote for basic human rights to be free to live a happy life, or basic human rights to live a life where they can protect themselves. Damn it I want a candidate that supports both LGBT rights and gun owners rights. I do understand some on both sides will not budge, but we have to find a medium, where we can all get along or we will stay divided and this country will never repair itself. I almost feel like when I meet people from other countries, I should apologize for our nation. We have a witch hunt going on with Muslims in the government (thanks a lot Michelle Bachman), and the persecution of the LGBT community. What happened to equality? Sorry for the rant, I take both issues I am ranting about personally.

Collector1337 wrote:I wish I could say the same, but I can't. I'm not a single issue voter either though.

I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

If only both sides could like Libertarians more, but both conservatives AND liberals seem to hate Libertarians, like they are so crazy, i.e. Ron Paul. In my opinion, it is a sad state of affairs when believing in freedom is somehow crazy or too extreme. (btw, I'm a social Libertarian, not economic)

the idea that, to you, women's rights and gay rights issues are less important than assault weapons bans, just because one has a more immediate effect on your current personal situation, strikes me as fairly appalling

it seems like a pretty big empathy fail

hypothetical governmental control of things (assault weapons) is a hell of a lot less important than the government's continued manufacturing of second class citizens

Fukshot wrote:I'm reminded of something I once heard. I wish I could give proper credit, but I can't remember where.

"A Libertarian is someone who can't distinguish between oppression and inconvenience."

That IS good!

We can actually thank the deep pockets of the NRA lobby for making any sort of assault weapons ban a non-reality.

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/client ... D000000082

I see it like this. The DNC got one part of the Firearms plank right, it IS a Civil RIghts issue. I feel that since the State has elected to leave our collective self defense up to us we should have access to any and all tools that can be used for that end. I personally put marriage rights in the same bucket as all other rights including the right for a free society to be armed.

As long as the political cache attached to gun restrictions is kept low, we will not see furhter gun restrictions legislation passed.

Fukshot wrote:

Collector1337 wrote: I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

WOW!

Fukshot wrote:I'm reminded of something I once heard. I wish I could give proper credit, but I can't remember where.

A Libertarian is someone who can't distinguish between oppression and inconvenience.

And what is it about my statements the deserves such a big "WOW!" but ZERO explanation?

Collector1337 wrote:And what is it about my statements the deserves such a big "WOW!" but ZERO explanation?

Please tell us you're just trolling and that you aren't really that shallow. Please?

Collector1337 wrote: And what is it about my statements the deserves such a big "WOW!" but ZERO explanation?

now... I don't want to put words in Fukshot's mouth, but scroll up the page to see something that might resemble her theoretical response to your question.

Ara wrote:

Collector1337 wrote:I wish I could say the same, but I can't. I'm not a single issue voter either though.

I would not rather lose my right to own an AR. I'm not a woman and I have no daughters. I'm also not gay, but favor gay marriage because I favor freedom. I also favor taxing the rich.

Still, gun issues are much more important to me because they affect me much more directly. We are talking one of my main hobbies that I do almost every weekend or every chance I get for that matter. Something that affects me, almost daily, is much more important than something that doesn't, or at least very little.

If only both sides could like Libertarians more, but both conservatives AND liberals seem to hate Libertarians, like they are so crazy, i.e. Ron Paul. In my opinion, it is a sad state of affairs when believing in freedom is somehow crazy or too extreme. (btw, I'm a social Libertarian, not economic)

the idea that, to you, women's rights and gay rights issues are less important than assault weapons bans, just because one has a more immediate effect on your current personal situation, strikes me as fairly appalling

it seems like a pretty big empathy fail

hypothetical governmental control of things (assault weapons) is a hell of a lot less important than the government's continued manufacturing of second class citizens

I have plenty of capacity for empathy, that I have no doubt.

It's my vote and I can do with it whatever I want right?

So, why would I not vote for issues that affect me the most directly, instead of issues that don't affect me at all?

I'm pro-choice, pro-gay, and pro-gun, I want it all, but if I can only choose one, I'm going to choose guns every time. This is a gun forum after all, not the democraticunderground. If democrats had a clue, they would drop the anti-gun agenda in a heart beat. They should realize it hurts more than it helps. It's possible, but I highly doubt anyone is a single-issue voter about anti-gun rights, but there are plenty of pro-gun people who are singe-issue voters, so Dems only lose votes having an anti-gun agenda, they don't really gain very many, if any. So, the Dems have a losing platform on this issue. Hopefully, they wake up to this fact.

Are you saying that I should not vote in my own self-interest?

Collector1337 wrote: ...Are you saying that I should not vote in my own self-interest?

The republican agenda simplified.

Collector1337 wrote: I have plenty of capacity for empathy, that I have no doubt.

It's my vote and I can do with it whatever I want right?

So, why would I not vote for issues that affect me the most directly, instead of issues that don't affect me at all?

I'm pro-choice, pro-gay, and pro-gun, I want it all, but if I can only choose one, I'm going to choose guns every time. This is a gun forum after all, not the democraticunderground. [off topic text deleted to save space]

Are you saying that I should not vote in my own self-interest?

claiming you have empathy and then saying both "I can do whatever I want" and something about "my own self interest" may not be perfectly mutually exclusive claims, but it comes close.

I'm not interested in telling you how to vote, but I am going to maintain that putting your right to own things above the rights of multiple groups of people to not be made second class citizens is a character flaw.