The Liberal Gun Club Forum

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... _blog.html

Looks like justice may yet be done for Trayvon

I'll bet the neocons are going to provide the most expensive lawyers they can find for this cretin.

Wannabe cop versus wannabe gangster. My sympathy meter doesn't budge much at all for either one.

SwampGrouch wrote:Wannabe cop versus wannabe gangster. My sympathy meter doesn't budge much at all for either one.

I fully agree, I simply want justice to be done if a crime was committed

SwampGrouch wrote:Wannabe cop versus wannabe gangster. My sympathy meter doesn't budge much at all for either one.

Wannabe cop is clear as day, but I'm curious what you base the wannabe gangster thing on?

AmirMortal wrote:

SwampGrouch wrote:Wannabe cop versus wannabe gangster. My sympathy meter doesn't budge much at all for either one.

Wannabe cop is clear as day, but I'm curious what you base the wannabe gangster thing on?

When the first news reports I heard said, "Seventeen year old" but the photos were of a kid three or four years younger, my bullshit alarm went off.



Nothing I've read has turned it off.

SwampGrouch wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:

SwampGrouch wrote:Wannabe cop versus wannabe gangster. My sympathy meter doesn't budge much at all for either one.

Wannabe cop is clear as day, but I'm curious what you base the wannabe gangster thing on?

When the first news reports I heard said, "Seventeen year old" but the photos were of a kid three or four years younger, my bullshit alarm went off.

Nothing I've read has turned it off.

Add to that the woman’s jewelry found in his purse has for the reason for the suspension from school when he was shot

Copying the contemporary styles of popular music does not equal criminality, even if there is a correlation between the two in the eyes of some. Theft does not equal deserving to be shot on the street either.

I call bullshit. I haven't seen one shred of evidence to suggest that Trayvon Martin was anything other than a black teenager.

Fukshot wrote:Copying the contemporary styles of popular music does not equal criminality, even if there is a correlation between the two in the eyes of some. Theft does not equal deserving to be shot on the street either.

I call bullshit. I haven't seen one shred of evidence to suggest that Trayvon Martin was anything other than a black teenager.

Copying the contemporary styles of popular music does not equal criminality, even if there is a correlation between the two in the eyes of some.

He was a wannabe not an actual gangster

Theft does not equal deserving to be shot on the street either.

I don't think he deserved to be shot either, hence why I want justice done

I haven't seen one shred of evidence to suggest that Trayvon Martin was anything other than a black teenager.

If your view of an average black teen is getting large tattoos, taking to twitter to inform women of #ThickDickThursday and his two Glock 40's then your view of the average African American is very skewed

Martin was no more an innocent lamb than Zimmerman was an Angel of Justice, although Martin did have youth for an excuse. Beyond that, you'll hear no defense of either from me.

SwampGrouch wrote:Martin was no more an innocent lamb than Zimmerman was an Angel of Justice, although Martin did have youth for an excuse. Beyond that, you'll hear no defense of either from me.

Is anyone innocent in this case? No
Did Trayvon deserve to be shot? No
Does Zimmerman deserve to go to jail? In my opinion yes, but its not up to me but a jury of his peers

SwampGrouch wrote:Martin was no more an innocent lamb than Zimmerman was an Angel of Justice, although Martin did have youth for an excuse. Beyond that, you'll hear no defense of either from me.

Oh bullcrap. That second photo IS NOT TREVON.

As for this jewelry lie, did you pull it out of your ass or from Stormwatch?

wlewisiii wrote:

SwampGrouch wrote:Martin was no more an innocent lamb than Zimmerman was an Angel of Justice, although Martin did have youth for an excuse. Beyond that, you'll hear no defense of either from me.

Oh bullcrap. That second photo IS NOT TREVON.

As for this jewelry lie, did you pull it out of your ass or from Stormwatch?

No the Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... ayvon.html

TheGhostWhoRides wrote: If your view of an average black teen is getting large tattoos, taking to twitter to inform women of #ThickDickThursday and his two Glock 40's then your view of the average African American is very skewed

I'd say that the behavior you describe is pretty typical for Teenege boys in this country, regardless of race, cock dimensions or gun ownership.

Also, I don't tweet about Thick Dick Thursdays, but I do about the fact that May is National Masturbation Month. Want to see where I post on the internet about the awesome guns I own or do you think you can find that on your own?

The issue is that this shit looks threatening to people when they see a young black man doing it, but not when they see me, the middle-aged white lady doing it. That there is what we call racism.

Fukshot wrote:. That there is what we call racism.

This.

Now, I'm going to walk away from this thread.

Fukshot wrote:

TheGhostWhoRides wrote: If your view of an average black teen is getting large tattoos, taking to twitter to inform women of #ThickDickThursday and his two Glock 40's then your view of the average African American is very skewed

I'd say that the behavior you describe is pretty typical for Teenage boys in this country, regardless of race, cock dimensions or gun ownership.

Also, I don't tweet about Thick Dick Thursdays, but I do about the fact that May is National Masturbation Month. Want to see where I post on the internet about the awesome guns I own or do you think you can find that on your own?

The issue is that this shit looks threatening to people when they see a young black man doing it, but not when they see me, the middle-aged white lady doing it. That there is what we call racism.

The issue is that this shit looks threatening to people when they see a young black man doing it, but not when they see me, the middle-aged white lady doing it. That there is what we call racism.

I agree to a point, I don't feel threatened when a person just in my opinion looks or acts like an idiot, when I think of racism I think someone you finds themselves superior to someone else based on the melanin content of their skin nothing more

I'd say that the behavior you describe is pretty typical for Teenage boys in this country,

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point

but I do about the fact that May is National Masturbation Month

Wait is it really

Also this is directed at you Fukshot, I know we get in a lot of heated debates, but I consider you a friend and hope you don't take this personally

I do not take our disagreements personally.

You don't get to define what you think racism is. That isn't how it works.

Fukshot wrote:I do not take our disagreements personally.

You don't get to define what you think racism is. That isn't how it works.

From Dictionary.com

Racism:
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

This is where I get my view on racism. That because you are white/black/brown/yellow/pink/blue what have you then you have the right to abuse, hate, subjugate those who are a different colour than you. Yelling racism in this case obscured the facts, and I don't believe the race card should be played every time something happens lets imagine for a moment if the roles had been reversed and Zimmerman was an African American and Trayvon was white how do you think the headlines would have read, I believe it would have went something like this

Man Shoots Teen
but we got this
Black Teen Gunned Down in Florida

Do you see the difference that makes, see the more we play the race card the more we make racism a problem

Take for example if you will a case that was going on while the aforementioned case was erupting onto the media
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... 30035.html
Where were the talking heads on CNN when this woman went to jail

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:

wlewisiii wrote:

SwampGrouch wrote:Martin was no more an innocent lamb than Zimmerman was an Angel of Justice, although Martin did have youth for an excuse. Beyond that, you'll hear no defense of either from me.

Oh bullcrap. That second photo IS NOT TREVON.

As for this jewelry lie, did you pull it out of your ass or from Stormwatch?

No the Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... ayvon.html

you do read the articles that you cite before you cite them, yes??

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by schools police.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... rylink=cpy

What's presented in the article about any DNA evidence is incomplete. There is nothing about the location of the blood stains on Zimmerman's clothes. Front? Back? Around the shoulders? What? If Zimmerman's primary wounds were to the back of his head and did not involved any major bleeding, it makes sense Martin would not have much spatter on his clothes.

As the former AG is quoted in the article, “This is nobody’s silver bullet.” DNA is not as locktight as it's presented on some bullshit TV shows. This is much ado about nothing (the DNA, not the case).

Racism is a pretty abstract concept.

Some jump at the chance to call anything racist. Some don't get how anything is racist.

It's subjective.

This doesn't have much to do with racism, but as a White person, I despise the word "Caucasian." I think white is just fine. Otherwise call me a German American, or European American, but I don't come from Caucasia, so don't call me Caucasian, it's stupid.

When a Black person insists on being called "African American", or when a White person insists on being called "Caucasian" I think it's ridiculous.

BTW, what the fuck is a "non-latino" white person? Why is that the bubble I always have to fill in on stupid forms that shouldn't be asking in the first place?

The fact that we still fill out what are race we are on forms (unless maybe medical) for school and other official things, I think is a reason why we still have racism. No one will shut the fuck up about it, so how can it go away? But, I guess I'm guilty of that right now.

rolandson wrote:

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:
As for this jewelry lie, did you pull it out of your ass or from Stormwatch?

No the Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... ayvon.html

you do read the articles that you cite before you cite them, yes??

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by schools police.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... rylink=cpy

[/quote]

I never stated the jewelery was stolen I merely said it was found in his bag.
Edit: I am wrong I did state that was the reason for his suspension

It was stated upthread that nobody was innocent in this case.

I disagree. Based on what I have read, I consider Trayvon Martin a completely innocent victim. If there was any physical altercation between them, the confrontation appears to have been 100% initiated by Zimmerman and therefore Martin was defending himself.

I want to see Zimmerman do time, but that said, I agree that the DNA article is pretty inconclusive. And evidence which is inconclusive or incomplete or confusing will usually be made to favor the defense in court.

Man Shoots Teen
but we got this
Black Teen Gunned Down in Florida

Do you see the difference that makes, see the more we play the race card the more we make racism a problem

I see the difference. I dispute that your assertion about how the difference would play out is accurate.

I also dispute your assertion that there is any such thing as "the race card", a notion I find offensive on its face. I also vehemently reject your assertion that talking more about how race functions in our society somehow perpetuates racism. It perpetuates white people having to be aware of racism, which is pretty damn different from perpetuating the existence of racism.

It doesn't matter one little bit what Martin looked like, how he dressed, or the image he was trying to adopt.

What matters is what both Zimmerman and Martin were doing at the time of the incident.

Martin could have posed gangster style perhaps, and his pants could have been sagging, but that still isn't anything close to aggressive conduct that would rise to the level where Zimmerman could assert self defense.

How he looked isn't relevant.

You've heard about how it is sometimes said (not by most people) that a woman was only asking to be raped because she dressed like a slut? Same thing.