W. T. F?

http://www.guns.com/controversial-jesus ... 11083.html

AmirMortal wrote:W. T. F?

http://www.guns.com/controversial-jesus ... 11083.html

The religious quotes on the scopes I don't mind so much, but comments section of that article was groan inducing

Years later and I will still never buy anything from Trijicon.

Fukshot wrote:Years later and I will still never buy anything from Trijicon.

Thank you. I was going to get some night sites. Not now

Considering that their pricepoint is where it is, I'll probably never buy anything from them either.

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:W. T. F?

http://www.guns.com/controversial-jesus ... 11083.html

The religious quotes on the scopes I don't mind so much, but comments section of that article was groan inducing

We're locked into wars that look a whole lot like religious crusades, yet the assertion has been that it is not a religious war, ie. a war on Islam. Sending government provided tools of war with religious quotes on them makes for an indefensible position on that topic.

I have a problem with it. I'm 100% disinterested in and opposed to any war over who's invisible man is superior, or which guy's take on what this Johnny-come-lately of gods wants is correct. No, not at all. Each individual in US territories are allowed to believe whatever they want (yes, even scietoligists), and to force someone who isn't christian to carry around a weapon with bible quotes on it is anti-freedom of religion, and frankly, it's insulting to everyone's intelligence for them to think they can just go on doing it, even though they were told to stop. Sending our soldiers into a muslim country with Weapons of Christ? Well, not my idea of how to "win hearts and minds".

Fuckshot wrote:Years later and I will still never buy anything from Trijicon.

Same here. Guess I'll just go with somebody else...who hopefully isn't a crypto-christo-fascist.

AmirMortal wrote:Same here. Guess I'll just go with somebody else...who hopefully isn't a crypto-christo-fascist.

Aimpoint should be GTG in that case. Primary Arms as well at that point.

ErikO wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:Same here. Guess I'll just go with somebody else...who hopefully isn't a crypto-christo-fascist.

Aimpoint should be GTG in that case. Primary Arms as well at that point.

I sure hope meprolite is GTG, they make night sights that get just as good, if not better reviews.

took a little doing but i figured out that the sights on my sigs were made by mep and trueglo.

for what it's worth, my daughter's marine likes his acog, and my guess is that it's a trijicon. of course he hasn't bothered to decipher the coding on it. i wonder what kind of shit he would face if he filed that off if he gets deployed again? certainly make for an interesting courts marshall ...

and this certainly explains why we didn't see a bunch of surplus acogs enter the marketplace after the first order to replace them...they just ignored it.

AmirMortal wrote:

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:W. T. F?

http://www.guns.com/controversial-jesus ... 11083.html

The religious quotes on the scopes I don't mind so much, but comments section of that article was groan inducing

We're locked into wars that look a whole lot like religious crusades, yet the assertion has been that it is not a religious war, ie. a war on Islam. Sending government provided tools of war with religious quotes on them makes for an indefensible position on that topic.

I have a problem with it. I'm 100% disinterested in and opposed to any war over who's invisible man is superior, or which guy's take on what this Johnny-come-lately of gods wants is correct. No, not at all. Each individual in US territories are allowed to believe whatever they want (yes, even scietoligists), and to force someone who isn't christian to carry around a weapon with bible quotes on it is anti-freedom of religion, and frankly, it's insulting to everyone's intelligence for them to think they can just go on doing it, even though they were told to stop. Sending our soldiers into a muslim country with Weapons of Christ? Well, not my idea of how to "win hearts and minds".

Fuckshot wrote:Years later and I will still never buy anything from Trijicon.

Same here. Guess I'll just go with somebody else...who hopefully isn't a crypto-christo-fascist.

You make a very valid point, but obliviously the brass doesn't care or if they do they are being slow to drop the contract

"Jesus Rifle?"

I think they mean "Jesus Scope" or "Jesus Optic" but, just the usual firearm ignorance I guess.

I got nothing against Trijicon, fuck, I'll take one of those "Jesus ACOGs" IN A HEART BEAT! Even if it's all beat up! Send it to me! Don't trash it!

How can you not want the best optic for an AR-15 ever made? I'm Christian, so I guess the Jesus stuff doesn't bother me.

I don't have $1500 for an ACOG for my AR so I got an EOTech instead. Just ordered my Primary Arms 6x magnifier last night. Not many high power magnifiers out there.

I'm hoping Primary Arms is better than those 7x Sight Mark or Mako magnifiers.

Collector1337 wrote:"Jesus Rifle?"

I think they mean "Jesus Scope" or "Jesus Optic" but, just the usual firearm ignorance I guess.

Yeah, the "Jesus Rifle" coinage made me wince. I wonder who came up with that terrible expression. "Biblical quote scope" would be more accurate but who cares about accuracy, right?

Collector1337 wrote: I'm Christian, so I guess the Jesus stuff doesn't bother me.

But do you see how it is inappropriate?

I don't care if Trijicon wants to put bible verses on their products. I care that they added the bible verses to equipment destined for the military and did it semi-surreptitiously.

For the reading comprehension challenged: three years ago, when the problem was identified, Trijicon supplied the military with retrofit kits for removing the offending lettering. The OP linked article refers to the fact that years later the retrofit has not been applied.

Nobody is throwing away equipment.

Really, I think that we "liberals" should pick our battles wisely. I don't see this as a huge issue.

1. I own several ACOGs, and the "code" is easy to miss. really, I don't notice it. And there's nothing offensive about it. It's obscure references to biblical verses, that are written in such a way that a person who doesn't really know the bible (eg. a lazy Catholic like me) would think it's just a long serial number. It's obscure.
2. It's only present in combat optics. I accept that most Americans in combat are religious, at least while they're in combat. And most of those are Christians. Let them have their faith.
3. Trijicon is a great company. Their optics are good, and their service is solid. I sent in a beat to hell 8+ yr old ACOG (one that I bought used) and they rebuilt it with no questions or even a receipt.

Do I want prayer in Public schools? Fuck No!
Do I care about obscure biblical references that look like serial numbers on a rifle? Not so much.

I've never been in combat, but spent a while in two branches of the service. I had no problem with prayer circles before dangerous exorcises. Because it made my fellow soldiers who were about ready to do something that was dangerous feel better.

In a perfect world, there would be no religious references that catered to one religion. But I'd rather expend my effort going after something like universal health care or Gay marriage than a war on Jesus Rifles.

Pick your battles... it works with marriage & relationships, as well as politics. At least that's my take on it.

And anyone who is unhappy with their biblical ACOGs can ship them to me. I really have no idea how to decipher the biblical references, but I can translate the reticule hash marks to any caliber I shoot.

Inappropriate? Umm, I guess.

I was thinking more a long the lines of.... just weird.

Yeah, I'm sure no one is trashing $1500 ACOGs. Should just be a matter of grinding off a few characters. But, if I were a serviceman, I'd probably be too lazy to even bother.

WhoDat wrote:Really, I think that we "liberals" should pick our battles wisely. I don't see this as a huge issue.

Agree. Honestly, I don't see it as an issue period.

WhoDat wrote:And anyone who is unhappy with their biblical ACOGs can ship them to me.

LOL, me too.

WhoDat, while I sort of agree about the relative importance of this, I think separation of church and state is a critical issue for the health of our democracy and little semi-secret infringements, especially in the military are how we lose that battle. When soldiers think that their government endorses their faith they more easily come home and vote for people who tell them that there should be prayer in schools and they more easily believe and promulgate the idea that we are in a religious war.

WhoDat wrote:I don't see this as a huge issue.

Is it a huge issue? No.

But is it still an issue? Yes.

That the soldiers be issued equipment that has been willfully marked with religious references falls on the wrong side of separation of church and state.

Collector1337 wrote:I'm hoping Primary Arms is better than those 7x Sight Mark or Mako magnifiers.

If you do have any questions/concerns and call PA and a guy named Marshall answers, he's the owner. I have yet to buy my Mini from him (they're going to be back in stock shortly, with luck) but the level of customer service that he gives is rediculously good.

ErikO wrote:

Collector1337 wrote:I'm hoping Primary Arms is better than those 7x Sight Mark or Mako magnifiers.

If you do have any questions/concerns and call PA and a guy named Marshall answers, he's the owner. I have yet to buy my Mini from him (they're going to be back in stock shortly, with luck) but the level of customer service that he gives is rediculously good.

Sweet. Thanks for the info.

Collector1337 wrote: "Jesus Optic".

Does that mean It only works six days a week

lemur wrote:

WhoDat wrote:I don't see this as a huge issue.

Is it a huge issue? No.

But is it still an issue? Yes.

That the soldiers be issued equipment that has been willfully marked with religious references falls on the wrong side of separation of church and state.

and apparently the general orders of deployment.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/go-1.pdf
see paragraph 3 L.

it would be nice to see trijicon forced to replace each sight at their expense and the DOD refuse to surplus out the old ones, just grind them up lest they fall into the hands of the enemy...and until jesus starts paying taxes, i think he and his followers ought to behave themselves.

lemur wrote:That the soldiers be issued equipment that has been willfully marked with religious references falls on the wrong side of separation of church and state.

^ This.

As bad as having weapons with evangelical Christian tripe (the bastardized Moral Majority tripe) on them, OEF/OIF soldiers have been reporting that religious flyers and other nonsense were being promoted by the Army, and distributed at various command headquarters throughout the Iraq-Afghanistan region. Worse yet, many soldiers are complaining that there were groups of Christians that were actively discriminating against soldiers that didn't happen to agree with their noxious brand of the Christian faith.

WWJD? He'd mow down Muslims with his SAW and, when finished, he'd keep his fellow soldiers from advancement, should they not worship him. After all, there are no athiests in foxholes. (/end sarcasm here).

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1004/p13s02-lire.html

A lot of the military guys I know aren't religious at all. Most are Atheist or Agnostic. I asked them about it, they said they feel like their suppliers, or the Government, are trying to make it out to be a religious war. They've all been asking to get it off their RCO's.