The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Neither of these groups wants mandatory safety training as a prerequisite to buying and owning a firearm.

The, so called anti-gun people, seem to be against it because they don't think firearms can possibly be owned an operated safely by ordinary citizens. They believe that only law enforcement officials are extraordinary enough to carry a firearm safely. If you know the guys and gals you went to high school with who became LEO, you will know they are the cream of the crop. They had to decide whether to go into law enforcement, Harvard Law or becoming a rocket scientist.

The pro-gun people don't want mandatory safety training because they don't like the government interfering with their civil "rats". They don't want the government to tell THEM they must have safety training to exersise their 2nd amendment "rats". Although to get a hunting license you have to take a Hunters Safety class.

So both of these groups have their heads buried in the sand while ignorant innocent people are shooting themselves and each other becuase it's perfectly legal to buy and own a firearms without any safety training at all.

I guy I work with just bought a 12 gauge pump and a Glock 17 so I invited him to go shoot them. He did not know how to load the shotgun or a magazine for hos pistol. He did not know how to operate either weapon nor did he know ANY SAFETY! I made him stop and take a safety class before he became a sad statistic.

Safety first!

I don't who in their right mind could see having minimum stanards for gun safety, like knowing the business end and what makes the thing go boom-boom, as some sort of Big Brother invasion of privacy or unrealistic hurtle to keep them from their god-given right to carry.

ccw class was a scary place. people could not load a mag, clear a jam. small class small range and instructor was good but that was not the place to learn

WillCarry wrote:If you know the guys and gals you went to high school with who became LEO, you will know they are the cream of the crop. They had to decide whether to go into law enforcement, Harvard Law or becoming a rocket scientist.

Those stupid damn cops stereotype all the time, don't they, Montresor?

imjustmoe wrote:ccw class was a scary place. people could not load a mag, clear a jam. small class small range and instructor was good but that was not the place to learn

This is exactly why I'm heading to the KR training class in a couple weeks. So that I can get familiar with handling and operating firearms before my 6 month Texas residency requirement ends. This will allow me the ability to head to a range and practice shooting. Then I will head off to the CCW class and *hopefully* not look like a noob who should not be handling a gun.

Then upon receiving my permit, many, many trips to the range with CCW intentions and practicing I will feel confident enough in my ability to not shoot myself or any other innocents to actually carry. My over/under is within a year of owning a firearm to feel confident enough to actually carry.

The range I frequent has 'First Shots' classes running a lot of the time and developed their 'Second Shots' program which helps new gunnies find out which gun works best for them. So far that range has had no problems from anyone that has gone through their programs and in fact have at least one homeowner to their credit for a good shooting.

Even though I had earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badge back as a scout, I still went through their First Shots program when I got back into shooting. If I ever get the chance to implement it at a gun shop, I'd give either a voucher to that sort of program with every first firearms purchase or else a one-time discount for anyone that completed the program. I don't think that a legal requirement would be a good thing as I do see that as yet another block to legal gun ownership for those in the 20% who don't make enough to pay taxes.

I worked all day yesterday as a Range Officer for my gun range yesterday.

I was on the 100 yard range, so it was all rifles and I think there is much less sweeping and general stupidness with rifles compared to hand guns.

Most people were coming in to sight in before deer season.

I only had to suggest lowering the muzzle to a couple people.

I did help out two different people with their "new" guns. One guy had a Remington 7400 and one had a 740. Essentially the same gun - I have a 740, so I knew what the issues they were having were.

I don't know why Remington made so many 740X guns - they suck. And I don't know why so many people bought them.

The 740X is an auto loader with a detachable 4 round magazine. The follower in the magazine locks the bolt open after the last shot. It's all well and good until you try and remove the magazine with the bolt locked open. Can't be done. And then if you don't know where the bolt release it (it's on the magazine) you can't close the bolt.

Then after you load the magazine you have to be very careful to get it in straight and all the way. Otherwise it will jam up and it takes two people to remove it - one to hold the bolt open and one to remove the magazine.

One guy had just bought his and it was the first time he was shooting it. He had no clue and no end of issues.

The other guy was having jamming issues. I think he needed to clean his rifle.

But why would you not spend some time working the action and figuring out how your new gun works before you even loaded the first round? I sure do...

Two weeks ago when I was doing Range Office duty on the 50 yard line I had to help a woman figure out how to lock the slide open on her new carry pistol... Why would you carry a pistol without even knowing the basic operations of how it works? I bet if I asked her where the safety was she would have had no idea...

On the other hand, none of these were really safety related issues - yes, I think gun safety should be taught in High School - or maybe sooner - but there sure are a lot of people who think guns should be treated like car engines: In a car you put gas in it and you drive it, with a gun you load the bullets and you pull the trigger, what more do you need to know?

Being a guy who likes to know how things work, and who thinks that if someone else can put it together I should be able to take it apart and get it back together again (and I usually can) I'm always astounded at people who have no interest in even the basics of how their stuff works.

I'm always astounded at people who have no interest in even the basics of how their stuff works.

I keep thinking that I should stop being surprised by this, but I never do stop. It's like an extremely specific learning disability I have.

Ultravox wrote: But why would you not spend some time working the action and figuring out how your new gun works before you even loaded the first round? I sure do...

Hell yes! I even.... wait for it....

... read the manual.

I'll admit skimming over the "Do not put in your mouth and press trigger" type warnings. I guess one day I'll try to pick my nose with a gun because I skimmed the warning where it says "Do not pick your nose with your gun, or anything else for that matter."

Ultravox wrote: I'm always astounded at people who have no interest in even the basics of how their stuff works.

Same here.

lemur wrote: Hell yes! I even.... wait for it....

... read the manual.

See lemur, you can save money (and time) by buying used (if it doesn't have the manual with it )

Oh, well now, reading the manual, that's a bit extreme...

Ultravox wrote:Oh, well now, reading the manual, that's a bit extreme...

I'm he odd duck that has read the manuals to guns I will never own.

Fukshot wrote:

I'm always astounded at people who have no interest in even the basics of how their stuff works.

I keep thinking that I should stop being surprised by this, but I never do stop. It's like an extremely specific learning disability I have.

These are the appliance users. They can be taught to employ the technology but haven't the slightest clue as to how it works. They used to survive only among the very wealthy, but the Industrial Revolution provided the ability and Capitalism the motive to dumb the world down so they can use the tools. Often they do well with regard to social skills and are taught to disdain the geeks that do understand how the tools work. We'll be seeing more and more of them.

For an example that doesn't even call for spacial ability or a knack for putting puzzles together: Every school child in this country knows (or damn well should) that calling 911 brings help. Are we teaching kids and adults to get the single most important piece of information - the location (they can't help you if they can't find you) - out before anything else? No, we're dumbing it down with E911 ANI/ALI displays and GPS data on cell phones and call takers ask "What are you reporting?" before "Where are you?" Cool technology, but only a God damned fool would depend on it for their life.

(Geeks love gadgets, and guns are gadgets that go "BOOM". Ergo, most of us here are geeks. I don't expect to find any appliance users in present company.)

Ultravox wrote:Oh, well now, reading the manual, that's a bit extreme...

It's what I do. I look at the manual on the off chance that there's something going on that's unexpected when it comes to loading etc.

lemur wrote: Hell yes! I even.... wait for it....

... read the manual.

I'll admit skimming over the "Do not put in your mouth and press trigger" type warnings. I guess one day I'll try to pick my nose with a gun because I skimmed the warning where it says "Do not pick your nose with your gun, or anything else for that matter."


Same here.

But see because I was born with a penis so that means I came preinstalled with the basic operating manual for every firearm, chainsaw, power tool, kitchen appliance, and automobile

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:

lemur wrote: Hell yes! I even.... wait for it....

... read the manual.

I'll admit skimming over the "Do not put in your mouth and press trigger" type warnings. I guess one day I'll try to pick my nose with a gun because I skimmed the warning where it says "Do not pick your nose with your gun, or anything else for that matter."


Same here.

But see because I was born with a penis so that means I came preinstalled with the basic operating manual for every firearm, chainsaw, power tool, kitchen appliance, and automobile

Oh shit! I've worked on your motorcycle!

I'm sick. I love these thing so much I read through all the paper work.

What I don't get, is why operating firearms is so difficult. It's the easiest thing in the world. For me, it was so natural, I hardly had to be told anything, it was like I just knew, even when I was a kid. When I got the shotgun merit badge I shot 38 out of 40 clays. I was like 12 years old and only shot clays once in my life before that. Maybe it was just beginners luck.

But, seriously. Safety, on/off. That's difficult?

Cock hammer, pull slide, work bolt, whatever. It's easier than driving a car, long division, a whole number of things.

It's amazing how gun grabbers think cops are somehow special, like they have abilities no civilian could ever have to properly use a firearm. Talk about stupid. It's that kind of idiocy that makes conservative pro-gunners think liberals are totally insane, and I don't blame them.

As "liberal gun owners" we should consider it our job to covert the ignorant liberal masses, because we have a much better chance than wacky right-wingers. We might actually get listened to, instead of dismissed immediately.

Easiest way to convert an anti-gun person? Take them shooting. I've found, all it takes them firing about 1 round, conversion complete.

Collector1337 wrote:What I don't get, is why operating firearms is so difficult. It's the easiest thing in the world. For me, it was so natural, I hardly had to be told anything, it was like I just knew, even when I was a kid. When I got the shotgun merit badge I shot 38 out of 40 clays. I was like 12 years old and only shot clays once in my life before that. Maybe it was just beginners luck.

But, seriously. Safety, on/off. That's difficult?

Cock hammer, pull slide, work bolt, whatever. It's easier than driving a car, long division, a whole number of things.

It's amazing how gun grabbers think cops are somehow special, like they have abilities no civilian could ever have to properly use a firearm. Talk about stupid. It's that kind of idiocy that makes conservative pro-gunners think liberals are totally insane, and I don't blame them.

As "liberal gun owners" we should consider it our job to covert the ignorant liberal masses, because we have a much better chance than wacky right-wingers. We might actually get listened to, instead of dismissed immediately.

Easiest way to convert an anti-gun person? Take them shooting. I've found, all it takes them firing about 1 round, conversion complete.

Best one I ever had let me set up the story, wife meets a new friend at work, find out that the person is hugely antigun, she comes over one night for supper. so since there was going to be no children around I took my 1911 with a full mag, and an empty chamber and placed it in an empty cigar box on the table
"So I heard you don't like firearms?"
"Yeah you see all guns do is kill people."
"How can an inanimate object kill someone?"
"Well it's in the design a loaded gun can go off at any moment."
"A car with no human won't drive itself."
"But a firearm is different!"
"No it really isn't, open that box for me please"
"IS THAT IS THAT A GUN!?"
"Yes."
"HAS IT BEEN THERE THE WHOLE TIME?!"
"Yes and as you can plainly see we are all unscathed."
"Its not even loaded is it"
Pop magazine out
"It was the whole time"
Conversation goes on has normal. Two weeks later she asked my wife if she could come over and shoot

TheGhostWhoRides wrote:

Collector1337 wrote:What I don't get, is why operating firearms is so difficult. It's the easiest thing in the world. For me, it was so natural, I hardly had to be told anything, it was like I just knew, even when I was a kid. When I got the shotgun merit badge I shot 38 out of 40 clays. I was like 12 years old and only shot clays once in my life before that. Maybe it was just beginners luck.

But, seriously. Safety, on/off. That's difficult?

Cock hammer, pull slide, work bolt, whatever. It's easier than driving a car, long division, a whole number of things.

It's amazing how gun grabbers think cops are somehow special, like they have abilities no civilian could ever have to properly use a firearm. Talk about stupid. It's that kind of idiocy that makes conservative pro-gunners think liberals are totally insane, and I don't blame them.

As "liberal gun owners" we should consider it our job to covert the ignorant liberal masses, because we have a much better chance than wacky right-wingers. We might actually get listened to, instead of dismissed immediately.

Easiest way to convert an anti-gun person? Take them shooting. I've found, all it takes them firing about 1 round, conversion complete.

Best one I ever had let me set up the story, wife meets a new friend at work, find out that the person is hugely antigun, she comes over one night for supper. so since there was going to be no children around I took my 1911 with a full mag, and an empty chamber and placed it in an empty cigar box on the table
"So I heard you don't like firearms?"
"Yeah you see all guns do is kill people."
"How can an inanimate object kill someone?"
"Well it's in the design a loaded gun can go off at any moment."
"A car with no human won't drive itself."
"But a firearm is different!"
"No it really isn't, open that box for me please"
"IS THAT IS THAT A GUN!?"
"Yes."
"HAS IT BEEN THERE THE WHOLE TIME?!"
"Yes and as you can plainly see we are all unscathed."
"Its not even loaded is it"
Pop magazine out
"It was the whole time"
Conversation goes on has normal. Two weeks later she asked my wife if she could come over and shoot

I've had somewhat similar experiences with my non gun owning friends (liberal of course). Once they come over they'll eventually ask to see a gun. I used to take as many as possible out shooting, but money's getting really tight these days, so I haven't done it in a while.

This is one of the beefs I have with the National Republican Association - the all of nothing attitude. Frankly, I think training classes should be mandatory, when purchasing a firearm. I also think firearms safety should be taught in schools, but I know that'll ruffle lots of feathers. There are just too many people buying them who've had zero training or experience. And watching Hollywood action flicks doesn't help... I often cringe when I see the shit that they do.

To be fair, most states require some minimal gun safety, before issuing a hunting license. But while hunting is on the decline, the video game generation is scooping up AKs and Glocks like hotcakes. It's sad that they're not getting some training, before they buy these guns. These are all accidents waiting to happen, which will prompt further gun restriction, in the long run.