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http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Bicy ... index.html

Police said the two began arguing after the bicyclist disregarded a "Do Not Cross" signal at Telegraph and Northline roads, causing the driver to hit him. Witnesses said the bicyclist got up and confronted the driver.

"The pedestrian light was red. He wasn't supposed to be crossing and ran into the side of the truck," said witness Michelle Noffsinger. "He jumped up, he got up, and he ran around the front of the truck to the driver's side and he just started pounding on this guy. He hit him ... maybe seven times or so, and then the driver shot him and he fell to the ground. It was just really crazy."

Rabid bicyclists are a weird bunch. We have a lot of them in Minneapolis. They break the traffic laws and then get really upset when you call them on it.

When I lived in Alaska, they had a law that says that you are not allowed to hit anything with your vehicle. You are to drive the posted speed limit only so long as that speed limit allows you to stop for any potentiality. I saw drivers punished because they hit drunks who stepped off the walkway in front of them. It might seem unfair, but I felt very safe on the roads there.

The cyclist crossed the line twice, and paid with his life.

It's not clear why the article refers to the pedestrian signal ("Do no cross").

In CA, and I believe in other states, bicyclists are required to obey vehicular traffic laws and signals. Pedestrian signals are irrelevant.

As to the other part of it, an apparent road rage confrontation ending in a shooting, there is always a lot of 'he said, she said" controversy in these things. Let the law runs its course.

larrymod wrote:It's not clear why the article refers to the pedestrian signal ("Do no cross").

In CA, and I believe in other states, bicyclists are required to obey vehicular traffic laws and signals. Pedestrian signals are irrelevant.

Happened in Michigan.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28ha ... l-257-660c

257.660c Operation of bicycle upon sidewalk or pedestrian crosswalk.

Sec. 660c.

(1) An individual operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing a pedestrian.

(2) An individual shall not operate a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk if that operation is prohibited by an official traffic control device.

(3) An individual lawfully operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk has all of the rights and responsibilities applicable to a pedestrian using that sidewalk or crosswalk.

(Emphasis mine.) There ya go.

larrymod wrote: As to the other part of it, an apparent road rage confrontation ending in a shooting, there is always a lot of 'he said, she said" controversy in these things. Let the law runs its course.

Granted that the in the course of an investigation (any investigation, I might add) a different story might emerge, yet it appears that right now the cops have witnesses (in the plural) corroborating the driver's story.

The '1%er' biker vs car driver incident here has disappeared from the news. It seems that the biker's lawyer was unsuccessful in filing a writ against the driver who got the 'good shot' all-clear from the DA...

Get mad, get violent, get shot. It works for me.

As an avid cyclist, I know how weird cyclists and motorists can be. While living in New Orleans a group of us were cycling near Almonaster Blvd. when a guy driving a mud caked van ran us off the road, turned around and made another run at us. One of our cyclists was an off duty NOLA police officer who took out his off duty CCW and opened fire on the van shattering the wind shield. The driver escaped and we heard no more of the incident. Being run off the road was frightening, but it was cool seeimg pistol fire shatter the windshield.

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In most places a bike is the same as a ped when on the sidewalk and the same as a car when in the street.

It's a heck of a way to end a confrontation. I wonder why the driver couldn't motor off?

I especially remember a couple times when cars turned left in front of me while I was biking in the street, forcing some pretty serious maneuvering on my part. They're memorable events because both times the drivers screamed obscenities at me. While making a verbal point to one driver I inadvertently dented the hood of her car with my hand, IIRC, but the other one went her way still thinking that she was somehow the winner.

So I've seen both sides, and as an avid car guy now, I have to say that bikes are still entitled to some extra latitude, IMO. Not that it would've mattered if somebody's going to ride right into the side of your vehicle and then pummel your face. I wonder if we'll hear anything about the cyclist - priors, 5150, "life issues?"

gaucheGlock wrote:In most places a bike is the same as a ped when on the sidewalk and the same as a car when in the street.

It's a heck of a way to end a confrontation. I wonder why the driver couldn't motor off?

I especially remember a couple times when cars turned left in front of me while I was biking in the street, forcing some pretty serious maneuvering on my part. They're memorable events because both times the drivers screamed obscenities at me. While making a verbal point to one driver I inadvertently dented the hood of her car with my hand, IIRC, but the other one went her way still thinking that she was somehow the winner.

So I've seen both sides, and as an avid car guy now, I have to say that bikes are still entitled to some extra latitude, IMO. Not that it would've mattered if somebody's going to ride right into the side of your vehicle and then pummel your face. I wonder if we'll hear anything about the cyclist - priors, 5150, "life issues?"

Haven't looked at a nationwide state by state bicycle law survey in close to 15 years, but in most all states, bicycles are considered vehicles with the same rights and responsibilities as motor vehicles and their drivers. In some states, it is even illegal for a person over a certain age to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk. The ped has the right of way in any event.

Baikal49 wrote: Haven't looked at a nationwide state by state bicycle law survey in close to 15 years, but in most all states, bicycles are considered vehicles with the same rights and responsibilities as motor vehicles and their drivers. In some states, it is even illegal for a person over a certain age to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk. The ped has the right of way in any event.

That's what I thought, as well. But I stand corrected regarding MI law.

In CA you are absolutely the same as a ped when you're on a sidewalk - and you're entitled to be on the sidewalk so long as it's not a business district. That means you can cross at the crosswalk, still in the saddle, and be 'dead right' in any confrontation with Das Auto.

As a general rule, the person driving the 2,000 pound hunk of steel owes a higher duty of care than the person on the bike. A bike does a lot less damage when carelessly operated than a car does. It is no different than carrying a firearm. One owes a higher duty of care to handle their firearm in a safe manner and not to shoot unless certain you are justified in doing so.

In this case it appears the cyclist acted irrationally and paid the price. But as a cyclist I can empathize with the fact that people who operate vehicles do so with little regard to the potential harm they can do. Be careful out there and give cyclists a little more leeway.

Seems more of an "act like a violent jackass and you may just get yourself shot" incident more than it is a cyclist right of way incident.

Cars and bikes. Same road, same rules - how hard is that to understand? I get very pissed when I see fellow cyclists ignore stop signs and traffic lights, acting like traffic laws don't apply because they are on a bicycle.

Ruger LCP fits nicely in my waist pack when I ride in the country. Just in case Bubba thinks it's fun to fuck with a cyclist.

TxChinaman wrote:Seems more of an "act like a violent jackass and you may just get yourself shot" incident more than it is a cyclist right of way incident.

Cars and bikes. Same road, same rules - how hard is that to understand? I get very pissed when I see fellow cyclists ignore stop signs and traffic lights, acting like traffic laws don't apply because they are on a bicycle.

Ruger LCP fits nicely in my waist pack when I ride in the country. Just in case Bubba thinks it's fun to fuck with a cyclist.

Agreed. Just pointing out that drivers bear a higher duty of care (in my opinion) due to the dangerousness of their activity. This incident seems like a different bird altogether.

When I lived in Madison, dealing with asshole car drivers and even worse bike riders was an everyday hassle. For every good and decent rider who obeyed the laws & actually stopped at stop signs, there were a half dozen others who firmly believed that the law did not apply to them and that to cause a car trouble was a good thing.

My wife was scared spitless one day by a bike rider who tried to attack her through her rolled up window because she had to slam on her brakes after _he_ ran a stop sign where the bike path crossed a road. Had I been there, he'd have gone to the morgue that day instead of home. I won't go into the idiots who are barely able to stay upright in the middle of January holding up traffic because you don't dare pass them because they might fall down.

One of the things I like about living in the boonies is that there are far fewer bike idiots - lots of riders, mind, and quite a few trails - but fewer of these freaks who think they're the chosen ones that will save the universe by riding their bikes 365 days a year.

Damn. That's near the range I shoot at, Taylor Pistol Club with about 300 members, Taylor Police Range which is used by 5 different police organizations. I assume everybody's armed in the area.