The Liberal Gun Club Forum

http://www.capradio.org/news/insight/20 ... edges-band

I've been away for several days, and heard this interview this morning while on the road. Leland Yee and Gene Hoffman of Calguns Foundation "debated" the issues of gun control on a Sacramento NPR station.

The discussion involved California bullet buttons, how according to Yee, everyone is not following the spirit of the intended law by installing a bullet button on their assault weapons. Yee is calling for more restrictions, but is vague on how he intends to define what sort of firearms should be prohibited. Yee blames the bullet button owners for not following the spirit of the law, but completely fails to understand the law was poorly written in the first place.

Hoffman made a few good points but was mired down by the interviewer's apparent lack of familiarity with firearms. Despite the interviewer's stated intention of not getting dragged into the minutia, where the two sides get the most heated, the debate got nowhere because of Yee's and the interviewer's inability to specifically identify the types of weapons or features that would make a firearm illegal.

Hoffman did mention that the CA mental health laws preventing ownership are quite good, and he also said there can be some form of firearm registration that would be helpful to stemming the criminal use of guns. Yee said that nobody would become a criminal overnight, as they would have 6 months according to his proposed bill where gun owners could comply with the law.

Yee was given more time to talk than Hoffman, and unfortunately Yee changed the topic to how he has been racially attacked by the RKBA crowd, rather than discussing his proposal. The debate might have been productive had there been more time devoted to the segment.

This debate wasn't that interesting, as it took the typical direction that gun debates take, which is maybe the only thing to take from this debate. An anti-RKBAer will mention that some firearms should be banned, but they are short of the details to discuss. I've seen it on DKos as well, where some people can't get past the clip/magazine distinctions, and aren't able to talk beyond generalities because defining the various components is "splitting hairs". But they still want to talk about banning some guns, somehow, but they aren't able to say how. If anyone really wants to discuss gun control, it would be extremely helpful to understand (or a willingness to learn) the mechanics of firearms and projectiles.

Yeah. It's the usual dysfunction. No real conversation because one bunch of idiots don't know what they're talking about and the other bunch of idiots can't stop screaming "Shall not be infringed!!!1111!!!!" and "Shut up CHINK!!!!1111!!!!!1!!!!!" long enough to explain the details.

This is why I think LGC is so important, to possibly change the conversation to one that actually makes sense.

Fukshot wrote:Yeah. It's the usual dysfunction. No real conversation because one bunch of idiots don't know what they're talking about and the other bunch of idiots can't stop screaming "Shall not be infringed!!!1111!!!!" and "Shut up CHINK!!!!1111!!!!!1!!!!!" long enough to explain the details.

I signed all the letters and petitions, made my donations to CGF and just hope it gets shot down like all the other attempts, but considering all the mass shootings going on I'm afraid SB249 is gonna get some traction.

Unfortunately, I don't think there'll ever be a real productive discussion about this topic now. California, like the rest of the country is just too polarized today. Issues are just abstracted into talking points by the leadership of both parties. Then they spin away and the whole thing turns into a fucking football game that the uneducated or stupid eat up and mindlessly perpetuate.

For example, If it would help I don't mind registering my BBed long guns like I do my handguns, but any time someone says that over in Calguns, all the NRA-absolutist types will jump all over them, preventing any real discussion. If someone talks about black rifles over at Democratic Underground they often get attacked by the hardline lefties telling them that those types of guns serve no sporting purpose and no one should own them.

I also don't doubt that Yee has been attacked racially by RKBA and CGN members. I read the threads in Calguns where the subject was addressed and most of the members just use the typical dismissive right wing tactic of calling Yee or who ever brought it up as race baiting, even though the very thread is full of "go back to China you commie" posts. They don't realize that they're their own worst enemy.

Fukshot wrote:This is why I think LGC is so important, to possibly change the conversation to one that actually makes sense.

Exactly. I just couldn't take it anymore, there was a time that CGN was a real movement and we would actually have real conversations about the subject and ways to approach it. Now its getting taken over by a bunch of christo-fascist wing nuts that turn everything into a "you're either with us or against us" argument.

LOL, there was even a thread in the CGN OT yesterday where members tried to start a debate on the existence of dinosaurs. WTF? Luckily there were enough members grounded in reality who posted to shut the tea bagging fruit cakes down.

It happens bit by bit. I sat down a couple of months ago and had a talk about gun laws with my (likely) future city councilman. That's one more politician on the left who gets why gun folks get so freaked over gun laws that make no sense. One more liberal who understands that the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "hunting rifle" is ergonomics and a less powerful cartridge. Some day, that guy might be a state senator.

Every little bit helps.

Yup every little bit helps. I try my best to introduce as many non shooting liberals to the hobby as often as possible, its refreshing to many of them when they find out that shooting and owning a gun doesn't automatically make you a conservative. Problem is I'm not wealthy and it becomes a really expensive endeavor, so I can't do it as often as I'd like to.

Most of you know I'm not one to get my undies all in a bunch over things like this -- my priorities for political activism lie elsewhere. Also, I don't think this bill has much chance of becoming law.

But I did run into a nice quote from the Sheriff of Riverside County (with the curious name of "Sheriff Sniff").

I strongly oppose SB 249.

This bill focuses on a non-existent problem...

This rifle platform - uniquely American - is probably the most prolific in the country. It is literally the modern American "musket".

Even more critically, we should not be turning entire classes of citizen gun-owners from all walks of life, which made good-faith lawful rifle purchases over the past few, into criminals.

CGN is publicizing this quote in this pdf:

http://www.calguns.net/249/CGN-SB249-SheriffSniff.pdf

I think this Sheriff sets the right tone in this brief quote, and gets to the most important points in a way that might resonate with many here at LGC.

(I think the "uniquely American" rifle platform he is referring to is the AR platform. While that's the the most common type of gun that would be affected by SB429, it is not the only one.)