The Liberal Gun Club Forum

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/whi ... d=16888281

It requires ammunition buyers who are not licensed dealers to present photo identification at the time of purchase, effectively banning the online or mail order purchase of ammo by regular civilians.

I like the Truth in Advertising here: they've called the bill the "Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act". I would have expected them to use the usual strategy and call it the "Tough on Crime and Pedophiles Act" because then they could have accused those opposing the bill to be pro pedophilia.

Apparently news of the bill were received coolly by the White House:

"He [i.e. Obama] believes in the second amendment of the constitution, in the right to bear arms," Earnest said again Monday. "But he also believes that we should take robust steps, within existing law, to ensure that guns don't fall in the hands of criminals or others who shouldn't have them.

In other words, "He'll flip-flop incessantly in the hopes that his meaningless verbiage will confuse enough people to keep him in office. "

I don't have a problem giving a copy of my photo id to purchase ammo, you have to do that with aim.com already.

whitey wrote:I don't have a problem giving a copy of my photo id to purchase ammo, you have to do that with aim.com already.

Since all reports say that the bill ends online sale of ammo to civilians, I'm assuming the text of the proposed bill requires the seller to see the original id, not a copy.

Thing is, the bill has 0% chance of passing either house much less being signed. Smells like typically badly written "feel good" legislation that doesn't do any good as written by scared urbanites who have a pathological fear of guns. It won't pass either house much less get signed so I suppose, since it is simply red meat for the base, it doesn't matter how badly written it is.

Almost as ignorant as the AWB was.

whitey wrote:I don't have a problem giving a copy of my photo id to purchase ammo, you have to do that with aim.com already.

wlewisiii wrote:Thing is, the bill has 0% chance of passing either house much less being signed. Smells like typically badly written "feel good" legislation that doesn't do any good as written by scared urbanites who have a pathological fear of guns. It won't pass either house much less get signed so I suppose, since it is simply red meat for the base, it doesn't matter how badly written it is.

Almost as ignorant as the AWB was.

+1 to both.

Welcome to my world.

gendoikari87 wrote:

whitey wrote:I don't have a problem giving a copy of my photo id to purchase ammo, you have to do that with aim.com already.

wlewisiii wrote:Thing is, the bill has 0% chance of passing either house much less being signed. Smells like typically badly written "feel good" legislation that doesn't do any good as written by scared urbanites who have a pathological fear of guns. It won't pass either house much less get signed so I suppose, since it is simply red meat for the base, it doesn't matter how badly written it is.

Almost as ignorant as the AWB was.

+1 to both.

I have been buying ammo mail order from mastercast bullets. Each order I have to send in a photo of my drivers license. No problem. I do have a problem that the ammo is dropped off on my porch (some one was home every time ) without any one receiving it. It is dropped off in a plain box labeled ammunition. We find it when we trip over it . I am glad this bill is going nowhere but I do think the rules could be tightened so I would have to sign for it.

Yeah, I ordered ammo online once and it gave me a weird feeling to have a few hundred rounds of 7.62x54r sitting on my front porch with no questions asked. Not sure I'd do it again.

And they put a nice sticker on the box saying "here is ordinance!"

mine wasn't labeled, the delivery guy thought it was concrete.

This is where I'm glad that the House is Republican and this won't pass.

I order all my 7.62x54r by mail. There's no way I'm paying retail for ammo for my Mosins. No fracking way.

Okay i heard somewhere that this only requires the reporting of orders of more than 1000 rounds. Is that true? If so I laugh, because my crate of ammo is only 880 rounds.

750 rounds here, 750 rounds there...

Who am I kidding, I have a freaking PRESS.

Oh yeah, there's no bill number. I bet they will be 'working on the final wording' of it for several months and it will be forgotten after those two idiots get re-elected.

I wouldn't mind having the big discount mailorder places out of the ammo business. Yes, in the end it would probably cost me money. I think it is worth more to me to have one of the income streams returned to my LGS who stocks very little ammo because he can't compete with online pricing.

I don't shop at wallmart. I buy from the local little guy because I like having someone who can actually answer a fucking question when I have one. I like going to the local store. If the LGS business wasn't getting squeezed so badly by online sellers, there might be more than one of them in my half of the county.

Fukshot wrote:I wouldn't mind having the big discount mailorder places out of the ammo business. Yes, in the end it would probably cost me money. I think it is worth more to me to have one of the income streams returned to my LGS who stocks very little ammo because he can't compete with online pricing.

I don't shop at wallmart. I buy from the local little guy because I like having someone who can actually answer a fucking question when I have one. I like going to the local store. If the LGS business wasn't getting squeezed so badly by online sellers, there might be more than one of them in my half of the county.

My LGS is in the next county. There was one the next town over, idiot got shut down for straw purchases to gang bangers. Honestly, I have only purchased ammo from either the range or that LGS. I have a reloading shop that is a little closer than the LGS that I get components at and a Cabela's that is closer still.

I have spent $15 at Walmart in the last three months. I got tired of them not opneing additional registers when they announce that the store is closing and then everyone lines up at the two registers they have open. Screw that. There are other places to shop locally and the close-by Walmart took out everything ammo related besides 12 gauge shells.

I just wonder what the license for ammo purchaser will look like and if a C&R/FFL 03 will cover it, no skin off my back either.

I am of mixed feelings about this.

Just a few months ago there was a guy that intended to make pipe bombs to kill soldiers. He was stopped only because an alert and experienced gun salesman found him suspicious while buying black powder, and reported him to the local police which for once were smart and professional enough to follow up. "Eyes on the guy" worked well that time.

But what is to keep me from going to 10 different gun stores and buying 200 rounds at a time, a very reasonable amount, and repeating the next week?

And the shooter didn't carry all 6000 rounds, he carried a few hundred, so limiting his purchases online would have made little difference.

My biggest worry is being able to buy oddball calibers, often only obtainable from a couple of sellers in the whole country.

So yes, maybe "eyes on the man" is a good idea, as long as I can buy 100 rounds at a time of some weird caliber via mail order.

I think they should pass a law that says if you intend to take your weapons and create mass murder then you must carry all ammunition that you own or possess on or about your person for the entire duration of that time that you intend on committing said mass murder.

It'll serve you right for buying six thousand rounds of ammo.

gendoikari87 wrote:Okay i heard somewhere that this only requires the reporting of orders of more than 1000 rounds. Is that true?

Gendo, how about you read the damn article I linked to? Or if you want it right out of the horse's mouth, so to speak:

http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/recent ... mmo-sales/

The mail order place I use is a "small guy" - the classic family owned small shop in Oklahoma. SGAmmo.com So why would putting that "small guy" out of biz make anyone safer?

beto wrote: I do have a problem that the ammo is dropped off on my porch (some one was home every time ) without any one receiving it. It is dropped off in a plain box labeled ammunition. We find it when we trip over it . I am glad this bill is going nowhere but I do think the rules could be tightened so I would have to sign for it.

Who delivered your ammo? Was it Fed Ex? I also have a real problem with "valuable" stuff being delivered and simply dropped off without anyone signing for it. Fed Ex is bad about that. I once had a $3,000 accordion delivered to me and Fed Ex left it sitting in the hall of my apartment complex while I was out. Anyone could have picked it up. But that is a shipper problem, not necessarily the original merchant's problem.

Skeptilius wrote:

beto wrote: I do have a problem that the ammo is dropped off on my porch (some one was home every time ) without any one receiving it. It is dropped off in a plain box labeled ammunition. We find it when we trip over it . I am glad this bill is going nowhere but I do think the rules could be tightened so I would have to sign for it.

Who delivered your ammo? Was it Fed Ex? I also I would buy local from an independent but I would have to pay have a real problem with "valuable" stuff being delivered and simply dropped off without anyone signing for it. Fed Ex is bad about that. I once had a $3,000 accordion delivered to me and Fed Ex left it sitting in the hall of my apartment complex while I was out. Anyone could have picked it up. But that is a shipper problem, not necessarily the original merchant's problem.

Yes, it was Fed Ex. I buy from Master Cast as I send them my empties and buy remanufactured 38 spl and 357 . After factoring in shipping, I save about $4 a box on 38's and about 10 for 357. I don't have a wally world that sells ammo near me and the farm and fleet is on the other end of the county. Master Cast seems to be a smaller outfit. they give the ballistics and answer questions.
I agree on trying to support local but the price differential is too large

BTW, my previous response is my opinion of what it would be like to live with this becoming law. I'm not sure what my opinion of this is in terms of "should this sort of regulation happen".

beto wrote:

Skeptilius wrote:

beto wrote: I do have a problem that the ammo is dropped off on my porch (some one was home every time ) without any one receiving it. It is dropped off in a plain box labeled ammunition. We find it when we trip over it . I am glad this bill is going nowhere but I do think the rules could be tightened so I would have to sign for it.

Who delivered your ammo? Was it Fed Ex? I also I would buy local from an independent but I would have to pay have a real problem with "valuable" stuff being delivered and simply dropped off without anyone signing for it. Fed Ex is bad about that. I once had a $3,000 accordion delivered to me and Fed Ex left it sitting in the hall of my apartment complex while I was out. Anyone could have picked it up. But that is a shipper problem, not necessarily the original merchant's problem.

Yes, it was Fed Ex. I buy from Master Cast as I send them my empties and buy remanufactured 38 spl and 357 . After factoring in shipping, I save about $4 a box on 38's and about 10 for 357. I don't have a wally world that sells ammo near me and the farm and fleet is on the other end of the county. Master Cast seems to be a smaller outfit. they give the ballistics and answer questions.
I agree on trying to support local but the price differential is too large

Well, that's weird. My post in your reply contains part of a garbled sentence that I didn't write. Gremlins in the works I suspect.

Fukshot wrote:BTW, my previous response is my opinion of what it would be like to live with this becoming law. I'm not sure what my opinion of this is in terms of "should this sort of regulation happen".

I'm personally holding judgement until there is a bill to review. So far, we have some hot air from a Seantor.

The AFP put out this version:

US gun control leaders try again to hit target
http://www.france24.com/en/20120731-us- ... hit-target

I like this part where one guy concedes as much...

Despite widespread outrage, legislation like that proposed Monday usually sinks without trace. Lautenberg and McCarthy themselves sponsored a bill 18 months ago to ban high-capacity ammunition clips for automatic weapons and it has gone nowhere.

Even a dedicated campaigner like Mark Glaze, director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, concedes that love of firearms runs deep in the United States.

"Much of the country is rural. There is a very strong tradition of gun ownership because of hunting, for self-defense," he said.

"And it's also true that because the United States won its freedom in revolution, something still remains in our culture that really values that freedom and the ability not just to protect yourself but to have arms in case you need to rise up against the government."

I hope this new initiative dies somewhere in the halls of Congress.

Xela