Oh Yeah, It's Frank Rich.

http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/declin ... ymag_press

The wave of nostalgia for Andy Griffith’s Mayberry and for the vanished halcyon America it supposedly enshrined says more about the frazzled state of America in 2012 and our congenital historical amnesia than it does about the reality of America in 1960.

The eulogists’ sentimental juxtapositions of then and now were foreordained. If there’s one battle cry that unites our divided populace, it’s that the country has gone to hell and that almost any modern era, with the possible exception of the Great Depression, is superior in civic grace, selfless patriotism, and can-do capitalistic spunk to our present nadir.

For nearly four years now—since the crash of ’08 and the accompanying ascent of Barack Obama—America has been in full decline panic. Books by public intellectuals, pundits, and politicians heralding our imminent collapse have been one of the few reliable growth industries in hard times.

But their most revealing shared trait, whatever their individual politics or panaceas, is an authorial demographic—they are all white men of a certain age. It’s not happenstance that the Indian-born Fareed Zakaria, who shares some of the declinists’ complaints, conspicuously stands apart from them by defining his subject, in The Post-American World, as not “the decline of America” but “the rise of everyone else.”

yes we are in decline, and what's happening is that they, the ones in power, have reached the end of their rope they have hollowed out the american working class to a safe degree and now they are doing what is called corporate raiding. The government for over two centuries provided one of the best platforms for capitalists, they decided after they had grown big enough, that it was fiscally beneficial to raid the government. Raiding is a corporate term for buying a controlling share of a company (here senators are shares). They did what any corporate raider did which was increase the share value, I.E. getting a return on their investment and for decades or perhaps a century or more, they did just that. But in the 80's corporate raiders became famous buying these companies and gutting them, I.E. liquidating them, firing everyone and selling off all assets. It made huge amounts of money for the raiders at the cost of the company.

Now the US government was still far too valuable to gut like that, but for some unknown reason they have decided that even the US is not above this tactic. They have, essentially, lost their damn minds. At least from my perspective because after you raid a company and sell off everything like that, like they are now, it's gone, or at least nearly destroyed. but this isn't just one company. it's a nation, where are they going to go after they're finished? Europe? where they're doing the same thing? I don't know

I do know one thing though. These Austerity cuts? They are nothing more than the worst form of corporate raiding.

We are no more in decline than when our grandparents faced the great depression. The rich pigs also tried taking over government at at time also. When we figure out who is actually hitting us with a stick, we will step on their heads like our ancestors did.

I wasn't around but I heard a few things happened in the 60's that disturbed the populace: Cuban Missile Crisis (you know, end of the world by nuclear destruction).
The assassination of a president, someone running for president and a civil rights leader.
Longhairs in the streets taking drugs and protesting against the U.S. war against communism in Vietnam(damn kids).
A TV show called "My Mother the Car" with Jerry Van Dyke.
Sounds like we were in decline then I guess. But Reagan came and turned it all around. Until Bill Clinton cheated on his wife and let terrorists plot 9/11.

Did Bill ever find his cigar?

SBRm1917 wrote: Sounds like we were in decline then I guess. But Reagan came and turned it all around. Until Bill Clinton cheated on his wife and let terrorists plot 9/11.

Sounds like something a right wing turd would say. Asshole.

SBRm1917 wrote:A TV show called "My Mother the Car" with Jerry Van Dyke.

I was around. You just had to remind us of "My Mother the CAR???"
I'm gonna crawl back into to my cave.
Peace.
Groovy man.

I guess sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internets. Im probably still an asshole though.

whitey wrote:

SBRm1917 wrote: Sounds like we were in decline then I guess. But Reagan came and turned it all around. Until Bill Clinton cheated on his wife and let terrorists plot 9/11.

Sounds like something a right wing turd would say. Asshole.

Perhaps you missed the sarcasm smiley.
I thought he was making fun of the right wing creed.

SBRm1917 wrote:I guess sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internets. Im probably still an asshole though.

My timing sucks LOL

OK Whitey make it right.

sorry, I've had my fill of right wing assholes the past couple days and my patience is thin. If it makes you feel any better, I'm considered quite the asshole myself.

Ha! My Mother The Car rebuttals usually require urgency though.

Ha, no problem. I know how it is sometimes.

SBRm1917 wrote: A TV show called "My Mother the Car" with Jerry Van Dyke.

oh my
I guess I really did miss the 60's
I never saw this one

One thing that is demonstrably in decline is tax revenue, where the rich are given huge tax cuts, at the expense of everyone else, the 99 percent.

Lets do go back to the tax rates that existed in the 60s or 50s. We might be surprised how quickly this decline into chaos can be reversed.

Yossarian wrote:One thing that is demonstrably in decline is tax revenue, where the rich are given huge tax cuts, at the expense of everyone else, the 99 percent.

Lets do go back to the tax rates that existed in the 60s or 50s. We might be surprised how quickly this decline into chaos can be reversed.

Exactly. After getting informed my tax bill is $23K this year, I wonder to myself why I'm paying more in taxes than Mittens or Exxon. Yet, these Republican fucktards still think the 1% need lower tax rates.

SBRm1917 wrote:I guess sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internets. Im probably still an asshole though.

I am too,,here how it happened

I have said it at times myself, It may feel like a decline to us, and it may well be, but the reality is that the people who said we would grow constantly and at the rate we did post WWII were always full of crap. We had from 1941 to the late 1960's a period of growth that was made possible because most of our global competitors (Germany, Japan, England, France, and China) were in shambles. What did we think was going to happen when those economies were back at capacity?

Now with corporations have little to no loyalty to national boundaries, and a whole world of cheap labor out there, what did we think was going to happen when profit and stock value were declared the end all be all of capitalism? What did we think was going to happen when money was declared to be political speech? Finally, what did we think was going to happen when in 1979, President Carter outlined that we were living beyond our means, that we needed a renewal of our commitment to community, solidarity, and hard work, and that we needed to seriously tackle the issues of energy and consumption; then about a year later Reagan was elected because he told everyone that we were great "Just because we're American" and began an attack on our public institutions and infrastructure?

I would say, the decline of one or rise of other is a matter of your position. As other nations rise to prominence, we can definitely see it as a decline in at least our hegemony. What we need to figure out is how to live in a global community where everyone has a decent standard of living that is sustainable and not exorbitant.

Caliman73 wrote: What we need to figure out is how to live in a global community where everyone has a decent standard of living that is sustainable and not exorbitant.

"We" Americans won't be the ones figuring that out. "We" will be the impediment.

We are rapidly taking our place in the Third World. When our garment workers claim we can produce clothing for Olympians just as cheaply as Chinese workers, it is absolutely true, but not a position to which we should aspire.

Decline depends on where you stand. If you are part of the 1%, this is the golden era like the 1880's when industralist could call out the police and army to suppress workers (we are not quite there yet -----). If you are part of the 99% we have been in decline since Reagn. We are bombared with lies for example Social Security is going bankrupt. The fix is easy, at the begining of Reagans term income was more evenly distributed so say 70% ( I am not sure of the exact number) of all wages etc. were taxed for SS. Now with the skewing of income and exemptions of billonaire hedge fund operators a much smaller percentage of total income is subject to the SS (FICA) tax as a lot of income is in excess of what can be taxed. Tax that income. We are in decline because the majority of the nation is being gutted to feed the greed of the 1%. Look at the Senate Republicans tax proposal, it would eliminate deductions for workers and the working poor but keep every thing for the rich. Sometimes I think (I know it isn't true , I hope ---) they would like to eliminate the 13th amendment as it would make it easier to manage labor costs. After all, labor is a commodity like steel and oil right?


Rant for the day

Honestly, the only thing that grows exponentially forever is cancer and eventually the host dies.

Economic bubble burst, new ones form.

China used to be a world power 600+ years ago.

ErikO wrote:Honestly, the only thing that grows exponentially forever is cancer and eventually the host dies.

Economic bubble burst, new ones form.

China used to be a world power 600+ years ago.

China is an interesting example. I can't think of a nation that since the 3rd century BC has remained in existence, if not always politically then culturally. In fact, it was the conquerers themselves who were invariably absorbed into Chinese culture. China has seen five dynasties come and go, each one collapsing because of internal strife or outside invasion, then after a century or two a new and vigorous state emerged.
We will see how long the Red Emperors last.

SBRm1917 wrote:Sounds like we were in decline then I guess. But Reagan came and turned it all around. Until Bill Clinton cheated on his wife and let terrorists plot 9/11.

Jesus better get his ass down here soon...

the comedian wrote:

ErikO wrote:Honestly, the only thing that grows exponentially forever is cancer and eventually the host dies.

Economic bubble burst, new ones form.

China used to be a world power 600+ years ago.

China is an interesting example. I can't think of a nation that since the 3rd century BC has remained in existence, if not always politically then culturally. In fact, it was the conquerers themselves who were invariably absorbed into Chinese culture. China has seen five dynasties come and go, each one collapsing because of internal strife or outside invasion, then after a century or two a new and vigorous state emerged.
We will see how long the Red Emperors last.

They are already being assimilated by the previous Ruling Elite, the money brokers.