I read a quip in one of the discussions that one of the members thought buying a Mosin Nagant rifle is less political than buying a new, most likely American made, weapon.

Before I say more, let me say I do own mostly military surplus, because I like the variety of weapons. My favorites are a K-31 Swiss, and a Soviet Mosin Nagant.

I am curious about what people think of this idea. Is a Mosin less political, even if you are essentially buying from Russia a rifle that could have been provided to Communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, or any of the Soviet Bloc nations? I know Ruger has a goal of giving one million dollars to the NRA this year, and many other American companies do similar programs.

Luke wrote:I read a quip in one of the discussions that one of the members thought buying a Mosin Nagant rifle is less political than buying a new, most likely American made, weapon.

Before I say more, let me say I do own mostly military surplus, because I like the variety of weapons. My favorites are a K-31 Swiss, and a Soviet Mosin Nagant.

I am curious about what people think of this idea. Is a Mosin less political, even if you are essentially buying from Russia a rifle that could have been provided to Communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, or any of the Soviet Bloc nations? I know Ruger has a goal of giving one million dollars to the NRA this year, and many other American companies do similar programs.

I guess I see a Mosin Nagant less political given the current political situation (NRA supporting preferably right wing candidates).

It all seems a little funny we're talking about this though.

There is an interesting anecdote in the book "Radio Free Dixie", the story of Rober F. Williams. And in it, Williams describes a moment when the authorities "PROVE" that he is a commie because he owns weapons that have the markings of the hammer and sickle; but then Williams comes around to say something to the effect that, well, does that mean that I'm a nazi as well? You see, he also owned surplus weapons that had the swastika on them. HA!

Anyway, I thought it was funny, and relevant. Sorta.

Xela

I don't think that it is a question of less political. I think that it is a question of less negative impact on the immediate political situation in the United States, from a liberal point of view.

I'm not sure I understand where the part about China, North Korea and Vietnam come in. Do you mean that you feel a rifle can carry some negative power because of its political history?

I'm not crazy about giving money to the current Russian regime, but mostly because their criminal oligarchy is very much like the one I am opposed to here.

Also, for the record, we should have supported the Vietnamese in their struggle for freedom from the French, when they asked us for it. We should have done the same to support the overthrow of an exploitative criminal regime in Cuba, when we were asked. IMO those were two very stupid decisions that could have advanced our eventual success in the cold war by at least the critical decade that likely would have prevented our tragicomic support of Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan. You know, that Bin Laden dude we were so happy to assist in his fight against the Soviets.

The comment about the Mosins being supplied to China, N. Korea, and N. Vietnam stems from a historical perspective of the weapon's uses in various parts of the world... The rifle was not provided to them (as far as I know) and it was basically sold as surplus from the current Russian government. Personally I think weapons carry some of their history with them. I also own a Nagant revolver, and have read various articles that claim that the Nagant revolver killed more people in the hands of the Soviet Secret Police than any other model of weapon in existence.

So buying the Mosin is a little bit of support for the current Russian Federation?

Luke wrote: So buying the Mosin is a little bit of support for the current Russian Federation?

I'm not certain, but I would assume so.

I feel there is a difference, although rather indescribable and unquantifiable, between purchasing an object that has both a useful and historical value such as a WWII rifle, regardless of the side that it was used by, and an object that has exclusively heavy symbolic value, such as a Nazi flag or crested dagger.
It's like walking by a 'Nazi Memorabilia' table at a gun show... makes me want to spit on the person at the table, while finding a table with military firearms just piques my interest.

I'd like to just take a moment and say that we are all using copious amounts of oil, be it in plastic, gas, medicine, or a million different products, every day. Oil which, mind you, is being exported at the cost of human lives. We eat corn grown by farmers who are being extorted out of livelihoods by monsanto. Most of our fruits are picked by what amounts to indentured servants and the clothes on our backs are likely made in sweatshops by people paid pennies a day.

Point being? Nothing we buy is clean, everything we buy has either blood, misfortune, or tears on it. It's nobel to try and reduce that, but it's also somewhat pointless, and in the grand scheme of things, ONLY supporting the NRA is about the best you can do.

gendoikari87 wrote:I'd like to just take a moment and say that we are all using copious amounts of oil, be it in plastic, gas, medicine, or a million different products, every day. Oil which, mind you, is being exported at the cost of human lives. We eat corn grown by farmers who are being extorted out of livelihoods by monsanto. Most of our fruits are picked by what amounts to indentured servants and the clothes on our backs are likely made in sweatshops by people paid pennies a day.

Point being? Nothing we buy is clean, everything we buy has either blood, misfortune, or tears on it. It's nobel to try and reduce that, but it's also somewhat pointless, and in the grand scheme of things, ONLY supporting the NRA is about the best you can do.

I agree with gendo, the arms companies are really small potatoes, personally I find the draw to military surplus is that they are a very robust weapon that anybody can afford. They make a great starting platform for the beginning gunsmith and tinkerer. Plus if someone wants to start a firearm collection most military weapons are fairly cheap. If you have the money and the desire any modern weapon made in the US is made by a company that is very small compaired to Insurance companies or pharmaceutical companies or energy or food and don't start me with outsourced clothing companies. If a person wants to really make a statement just don't join the NRA, but if you need to just to shoot joining them is ok too, if you are a member you can complain to them. Owning and shooting guns is just an enjoyable hobby to me, I can think of a lot of other things to do for a political statement, like voting.

the sad turn around is that most american weapons manufacturing is actually made IN america, meaning you're giving jobs to people paid ... well something that's not really slave wages. I'm sure I could trace somewhere in there where you'd be supporting murder or extortion but it's at least not in the first level.

Actually, most positions at a firearms manufacturer company tend to pay better than the average manufacturing gig.

Armscor is opening a facility in NV. I have long-running plans to get a few RIA handguns and at least one M5 shotgun.

I don't like giving my money to outfits that support the NRA either, but I have a hard time giving much of a shit. I know I prolly should. I'm so bad.