The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I came across this article https://gunwriter.wordpress.com/2011/03 ... ise-break/

What do the expert here feel?

I am only work to be surprised when shooting for accuracy with a handgun. Even then, I am not surprised so much as not anticipating because my attention is elsewhere (holding and sights).

I know exactly when the 4oz trigger on my good rifle will break.

I feel like discussion of "surprise" is not completely accurate and is meant to convey the importance of not snatching at the trigger in a moment of good sight alignment. It is almost a metaphor more than a literal description.

I almost always shoot single action with revolvers and that's to limit the movement that will make the gun fire. If it goes off and its a suprise something is terribly wrong.

Simmer down wrote:I almost always shoot single action with revolvers and that's to limit the movement that will make the gun fire. If it goes off and its a suprise something is terribly wrong.

This^^^^^^

If you are proficient with your guns you should not be surprised. I know where each of my triggers break and how much pressure to use.

Fukshot wrote:I am only work to be surprised when shooting for accuracy with a handgun. Even then, I am not surprised so much as not anticipating because my attention is elsewhere (holding and sights).

I know exactly when the 4oz trigger on my good rifle will break.

I feel like discussion of "surprise" is not completely accurate and is meant to convey the importance of not snatching at the trigger in a moment of good sight alignment. It is almost a metaphor more than a literal description.

Say what now? Um... what kind of trigger is that?

gendoikari87 wrote: Say what now? Um... what kind of trigger is that?

Timney

The way I learned in boot camp with an M-14 was the surprise break.

There was no creep so it seemed to work. To a limited amount.

It was good in the prone position. I have to consult my Kama Sutra to see if it was good in the other positions.

I qualified expert by ignoring some of that advice. In the offhand position at 100 yards, we were taught to make a figure 8 while pulling the trigger. I sucked at that. On qualification day I dropped the rifle down to the target, and as soon as I got some space between the front sight blade, I broke the trigger which lifted it a bit and I started getting bulls.

I've since fired MANY more rounds through everything other than an M-14

I think it was a useful training tool for that weapon or the M-1.

In the next training we learned other weapons. Try hitting a moving target with a BAR by leading it and being surprised. Or shooting a 40mm grenade through an open tank hatch at 100 yards.

By then we no longer had marksmanship instructors. Just gear instructors.

Try a surprise break in Double Action. On some I stage it.

I did have an AR-7 I overworked the sear on and Surprise! Automatic!
Since the barrel loosened with ever round fired, It was fun until I got a new trigger.

I don't like surprises. Like trip wires. Or holes in the ground with sharp sticks. Or the popular "Grenade in a can!" or the "Grenade under the dead American"

No surprises for me - no more.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Fukshot wrote:I am only work to be surprised when shooting for accuracy with a handgun. Even then, I am not surprised so much as not anticipating because my attention is elsewhere (holding and sights).

I know exactly when the 4oz trigger on my good rifle will break.

I feel like discussion of "surprise" is not completely accurate and is meant to convey the importance of not snatching at the trigger in a moment of good sight alignment. It is almost a metaphor more than a literal description.

Say what now? Um... what kind of trigger is that?

I can take some of mine that low. I just don't like it. 3-4 lb is my lowest. It sometime takes two pounds of pressure to get my finger to move. My hands have been beat to hell from being a keeper in soccer to chicago style 16in softball.

What I look for is the last shot. When I teach a new person and they get surprised when they run out. They hold on target and nothing happens and they don't flinch then I know I did my job.

I almost shot myself in the face because I couldn't find the damn break. I caught myself ready to look down the barrel of a loaded gun. Stupid Taurus 24/7 OSS which I so wanted to like and buy but couldn't because of that.

The old Marine Corps figure 8. I never understood that either.

GuitarsandGuns wrote:No surprises for me - no more.

What kind of warning would be appropriate for the stripper hiding in your giant birthday cake?

History in the making! G&G's last post was apparently her 2000th!! Good on ya!

Bucolic wrote:History in the making! G&G's last post was apparently her 2000th!! Good on ya!

Now THAT was a surprise.

Fukshot wrote:

GuitarsandGuns wrote:No surprises for me - no more.

What kind of warning would be appropriate for the stripper hiding in your giant birthday cake?

PTSD don't likee

Paladin wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Fukshot wrote:I am only work to be surprised when shooting for accuracy with a handgun. Even then, I am not surprised so much as not anticipating because my attention is elsewhere (holding and sights).

I know exactly when the 4oz trigger on my good rifle will break.

I feel like discussion of "surprise" is not completely accurate and is meant to convey the importance of not snatching at the trigger in a moment of good sight alignment. It is almost a metaphor more than a literal description.

Say what now? Um... what kind of trigger is that?

I can take some of mine that low. I just don't like it. 3-4 lb is my lowest. It sometime takes two pounds of pressure to get my finger to move. My hands have been beat to hell from being a keeper in soccer to chicago style 16in softball.

What I look for is the last shot. When I teach a new person and they get surprised when they run out. They hold on target and nothing happens and they don't flinch then I know I did my job.

I almost shot myself in the face because I couldn't find the damn break. I caught myself ready to look down the barrel of a loaded gun. Stupid Taurus 24/7 OSS which I so wanted to like and buy but couldn't because of that.

I know what you mean, I have my mosin down to about 2lb pull and that's about all I'd want. I also agree with the others here that when people say "surprised" they just mean it as a metaphor. when I'm aiming I certainly want to know exactly when my rifle goes off and be able to control that, but a lighter trigger means less jerk and more accuracy. Not that I can use that accuracy with my mosin yet, I'll have to find a longer range first and then get the scope on it.

GuitarsandGuns wrote:

Fukshot wrote:

GuitarsandGuns wrote:No surprises for me - no more.

What kind of warning would be appropriate for the stripper hiding in your giant birthday cake?

PTSD don't likee

Sorry. I withdraw the offer. Nothing in your cake but cake, and love.

Fukshot wrote:Sorry. I withdraw the offer. Nothing in your cake but cake, and love.

Humor is a better turn on than nakedness. Now if Don Rickles came out of the cake........

Paladin wrote:The old Marine Corps figure 8. I never understood that either.

I believe the Army uses or used that technique as well. My M1 instructor with my local club taught us the figure 8 technique for offhand, and he was a longtime rifle instructor with the U.S. Army.

So I currently use figure 8, but I'm going to try G&G's "lower the sights to just below the target" technique.

One thing I've found with offhand is that I'd better get a shot off within a couple of seconds of assuming the offhand position, because my steadiness just goes downhill from then on. So if I use the figure 8, I'd better do it pretty quickly.

This is a good discussion, and I enjoyed the article. I think we are in agreement that, whatever else "surprise break" means, it does not mean inconsistency.

larrymod wrote:

Paladin wrote:The old Marine Corps figure 8. I never understood that either.

I believe the Army uses or used that technique as well. My M1 instructor with my local club taught us the figure 8 technique for offhand, and he was a longtime rifle instructor with the U.S. Army.

So I currently use figure 8, but I'm going to try G&G's "lower the sights to just below the target" technique.

One thing I've found with offhand is that I'd better get a shot off within a couple of seconds of assuming the offhand position, because my steadiness just goes downhill from then on. So if I use the figure 8, I'd better do it pretty quickly.

This is a good discussion, and I enjoyed the article. I think we are in agreement that, whatever else "surprise break" means, it does not mean inconsistency.

Since I can't hold steady, I try to shoot as the sight is passing through the bull in a downward motion. It was good for the trigger I had.

Hmmm... I don't think about the trigger pull that much these days while I'm shooting handguns. The shot (or multiple shots) definitely happen when I want them to happen, so it's definitely no surprise. I'm too busy keeping the sights aligned, focusing on the front sight, and acquiring the target for a quick follow up shot to be able to think at any level: "ooookaaaayyy...might break at any time, might break at any time, keep squeeezing, nice and slooowww.., might break at any time...." Been working more and more on speed at the range these days. Getting those first 2 torso shots off fast and under control, then a quickly aimed head shot. It gets to the point where I can't focus too much any one thing like what my finger is doing.
Or am I doing a surprise break and I just don't know it?