CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-unveil ... 13533.html

For those who know anything about physics if this is confirmed, this is immense, like, Discovering fire big. Actually fire might be a small fry compared to this.
It is the last undiscovered piece of the Standard Model that describes the fundamental make-up of the universe. The model is for physicists what the theory of evolution is for biologists.
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Ok, dude, you know that many exclamation points are a sign of a diseased mind, right?

And yeah, it's five sigma. That's not possible discovery, that's the bar for actually calling it "discovered".
CERN wrote:CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson


Geneva, 4 July 2012. At a seminar held at CERN1 today as a curtain raiser to the year’s major particle physics conference, ICHEP2012 in Melbourne, the ATLAS and CMS experiments presented their latest preliminary results in the search for the long sought Higgs particle. Both experiments observe a new particle in the mass region around 125-126 GeV.

“We observe in our data clear signs of a new particle, at the level of 5 sigma, in the mass region around 126 GeV. The outstanding performance of the LHC and ATLAS and the huge efforts of many people have brought us to this exciting stage,” said ATLAS experiment spokesperson Fabiola Gianotti, “but a little more time is needed to prepare these results for publication.”

"The results are preliminary but the 5 sigma signal at around 125 GeV we’re seeing is dramatic. This is indeed a new particle. We know it must be a boson and it’s the heaviest boson ever found,” said CMS experiment spokesperson Joe Incandela. “The implications are very significant and it is precisely for this reason that we must be extremely diligent in all of our studies and cross-checks."

“It’s hard not to get excited by these results,” said CERN Research Director Sergio Bertolucci. “ We stated last year that in 2012 we would either find a new Higgs-like particle or exclude the existence of the Standard Model Higgs. With all the necessary caution, it looks to me that we are at a branching point: the observation of this new particle indicates the path for the future towards a more detailed understanding of what we’re seeing in the data.”

The results presented today are labelled preliminary. They are based on data collected in 2011 and 2012, with the 2012 data still under analysis. Publication of the analyses shown today is expected around the end of July. A more complete picture of today’s observations will emerge later this year after the LHC provides the experiments with more data.

The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic? The Standard Model describes the fundamental particles from which we, and every visible thing in the universe, are made, and the forces acting between them. All the matter that we can see, however, appears to be no more than about 4% of the total. A more exotic version of the Higgs particle could be a bridge to understanding the 96% of the universe that remains obscure.

“We have reached a milestone in our understanding of nature,” said CERN Director General Rolf Heuer. “The discovery of a particle consistent with the Higgs boson opens the way to more detailed studies, requiring larger statistics, which will pin down the new particle’s properties, and is likely to shed light on other mysteries of our universe.”

Positive identification of the new particle’s characteristics will take considerable time and data. But whatever form the Higgs particle takes, our knowledge of the fundamental structure of matter is about to take a major step forward.
I understand that when he spoke, Higgs himself was overcome to the point of tears on stage.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pax wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Pax wrote:Is there any way to put this into lay terms? I understand that it's a big thing, but have no idea why or what it means.
The higgs boson is the glue that holds matter together.
I see. Will this have any impact on the daily lives of us non-science folks?
Ever hear of replicators? Anti-gravity?

also let me just take a moment to say this:

SUCK MY BALLS SCIENCE HATERS!
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pax wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Ever hear of replicators? Anti-gravity?

also let me just take a moment to say this:

SUCK MY BALLS SCIENCE HATERS!
I'm not a science hater, I just don't know much about it, that's why I asked. So how about if you fuck off, and take your pathetic balls with you. Douche.
I thought the "suck my balls" comment was directed at whitey.
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. -- MLK

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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lemur wrote:
Pax wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Ever hear of replicators? Anti-gravity?

also let me just take a moment to say this:

SUCK MY BALLS SCIENCE HATERS!
I'm not a science hater, I just don't know much about it, that's why I asked. So how about if you fuck off, and take your pathetic balls with you. Douche.
I thought the "suck my balls" comment was directed at whitey.
He didn't quote whitey, so it seemed to be directed at me as well as the other "science haters".

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pax wrote: He didn't quote whitey, so it seemed to be directed at me as well as the other "science haters".
True that he did not quote whitey. At the same time, Gendo's writing often requires editing (e.g. "pallet" vs "palate" in another thread), sometimes substantial editing, but I may have edited more than warranted by circumstances.
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. -- MLK

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pax wrote:Is there any way to put this into lay terms? I understand that it's a big thing, but have no idea why or what it means.
The higgs is what makes things have mass. Mass is different than weight.

Like, when you are in space floating around weightless, it takes less effort to throw a ping pong ball into the sun than it would take to throw someone like rush limbaugh. That's how mass is different than weight, weight is a sort of after effect of a lot of mass. Weight springs from mass sorta like an apple springs from a branch, can't have the apple if you don't have the tree.

So, now that it's been narrowed down, we begin to study it.
After we determine all of the traits of the higgs boson that we can, we try to figure out how to poke it.
If we can poke it, that is the base-level foundation stones for doing things like collecting lots of higgs bosons in one place.
Read that last sentence as "artificial black holes able to be safely created in labs, black holes that dissipate the instant the machine is turned off"

And if we can push them together in a container, then we can expel them from an area.
Read that sentence as "Create a force field around a space ship that allows us to go faster than light."

And if that ability to shove higgs bosons around can be made small enough, then we can create mobile regions without mass.
Read that sentence as "Make the machine small enough to build anti-gravity flying cars."

It comes down to mass, what makes matter into more than just something solid, messing around with the tree before it spawns the apple of 'weight'. We all know E=mc^2, the m is mass. It's said that the reason we can't go faster than light is because of the energy required to push mass that fast - but if you make mass = zero, then you aren't pushing mass any more, so then it does become possible to go superluminal. Warp drive, bitches!

This is the doorstep to some seriously fundamental shit. Finding the higgs is like finally finding the keyhole. Now, to make the key...

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JayFromPA wrote: The higgs is what makes things have mass. Mass is different than weight.

Like, when you are in space floating around weightless, it takes less effort to throw a ping pong ball into the sun than it would take to throw someone like rush limbaugh. That's how mass is different than weight, weight is a sort of after effect of a lot of mass. Weight springs from mass sorta like an apple springs from a branch, can't have the apple if you don't have the tree.

So, now that it's been narrowed down, we begin to study it.
After we determine all of the traits of the higgs boson that we can, we try to figure out how to poke it.
If we can poke it, that is the base-level foundation stones for doing things like collecting lots of higgs bosons in one place.
Read that last sentence as "artificial black holes able to be safely created in labs, black holes that dissipate the instant the machine is turned off"

And if we can push them together in a container, then we can expel them from an area.
Read that sentence as "Create a force field around a space ship that allows us to go faster than light."

And if that ability to shove higgs bosons around can be made small enough, then we can create mobile regions without mass.
Read that sentence as "Make the machine small enough to build anti-gravity flying cars."

It comes down to mass, what makes matter into more than just something solid, messing around with the tree before it spawns the apple of 'weight'. We all know E=mc^2, the m is mass. It's said that the reason we can't go faster than light is because of the energy required to push mass that fast - but if you make mass = zero, then you aren't pushing mass any more, so then it does become possible to go superluminal. Warp drive, bitches!

This is the doorstep to some seriously fundamental shit. Finding the higgs is like finally finding the keyhole. Now, to make the key...
Now that is some seriously cool stuff!!!

Thanks so much for the simplified explanation! I used to have a friend who worked as an engineer at Fermi Lab, he could always make science understandable to me; he explained matter v. anti matter to me using our beer mugs to destroy the universe... fun.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Here is another attempt to explain what has been discovered and why we should care;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/75508320/Higg ... s-Everyone

I'm not sure the guy did such a great job with it. A lot of history about who discovered what and won various prizes. Blah, blah, who cares about that except other physicists?

Jay, I think your take on this is fairly useful to help me understand what's going on, so thanks for that.

Physicists (and probably other science types) need to understand that the REAL challenge in front of them is not discovering stuff, or even putting it to practical use, but rather explaining to lay people why we need to understand and care.
Last edited by Elmo on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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whitey wrote:So because I don't share your enthusiasm about this I'm a science hater?
what no. Science haters, the global warming and evolution deniers, you know conservatives. wasn't directed at any of you. it was an aside. Sorry for any confusion and if I offended anyone here I apologize, certainly wasn't meant for any you.

There is a huge different between not knowing and not wanting to know, the science haters are the latter.
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.

CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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larrymod wrote: Physicists (and probably other science types) need to understand that the REAL challenge in front of them is not discovering stuff, or even putting it to practical use, but rather explaining to lay people why we need to understand and care.
They all need to take a class on teaching elementary school and a class on marketing; to learn how to dump jargon and how to persuade on an emotional level.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pax wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Ever hear of replicators? Anti-gravity?

also let me just take a moment to say this:

SUCK MY BALLS SCIENCE HATERS!
I'm not a science hater, I just don't know much about it, that's why I asked. So how about if you fuck off, and take your pathetic balls with you. Douche.
again sorry if you thought that was directed at you. Wasn't meant for any of you, it was for the right wing global warming and evolution, ect, ect deniers. So again if you took offense I apologize. I've been busy today that's why I didn't respond earlier, the others covered it well anyway.
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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back in the day some in physics considered that the universe was either open, meaning continuously expanding, or closed...meaning that it would expand to a point where the gravity of the overall mass would bring it all back together...a repeating cycle and endless big bangs.

Physics is the science of measurement and is constantly seeking order, and an open universe is terribly disorderly. The problem was, at the time, there didn't appear to be enough 'stuff' around to generate the mass necessary to bring it all back together. This was not a happy thought.

So some went looking for hidden mass to bring order back into the picture. For a very long time I was a complete sceptic. Black Holes? "Bullshit" I said...it's just an excuse to find mass and explain the mathematics...Dark Matter...Neutrinos, with mass no less...more inventions I said...

I am old...I can get away with having a closed mind...it's called crotchety...

anyway, I came around in the 80's...my mind opened up a touch...

this, the Higgs Boson, is as significant to physics as the discovery of the ability to make fire was to humans. I think Einstein's E=MC2 pales in comparison. Einstein was searching for something like this in his Grand Unification Theory...A mathematical expression that will link everything...Energy, Matter, and Gravity...and I believe that we just took a huge step in doing that.

edit: changed to stuff..more better sentence...
People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone.”Aaron Sorkin/Michael J Fox The American President
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...

Re: CERN: BREAKING GOD PARTICLE POSSIBLY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JayFromPA wrote: Like, when you are in space floating around weightless, it takes less effort to throw a ping pong ball into the sun than it would take to throw someone like rush limbaugh.
Poor example. The former is a useless exercise but the latter is a worthy, practical endeavor. ;)
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

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