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A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:44 am
by Fukshot
Starting thread to avoid threadjack.
Over in Pax's "2A as your sole focus" thread, judgepacker raised the interesting issue of what the psychological impact might be of dealing with intolerant 2A focused right wing gun folks on a regular basis as part of a gun business.
I responded that I had once considered gunsmithing as a career and one of the things that made me decide against it was the prospect of being immersed in that world view.
Judge then related an experience at a gun range where a bunch of orthodox Jews were excited to learn that judgepacker is a member of the tribe.
I'll add that their surprise might have had something to do with judge having a shaved head, which is fashionable amongst both freaks like judge and also fashionable with the neo-nazi set.
So, here's a thread for discussing the impact of spending time in the gun world surrounded by people who you might otherwise avoid like the plague. How do you deal with it? What does it do to you? Does it change you? Do you need to make sure that it is balanced out by exposure to other things and other kinds of people?
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:46 am
by Inquisitor
I don't talk to people at the range, unless I brought them as a guest. It's my zen time.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:49 am
by KVoimakas
I wear my liberal-ness loud and proud, especially in the winners circle. You can see the brain implosion when they realize the guy who just beat 'em swings far left.
It's at least brought about some rethinking of deeply held beliefs...then again, my district voted Stupak (a progressive pro-RKBA Democrat [with the exception of abortion]) into office for almost two decades.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:57 am
by KlownKannon
I'll add that their surprise might have had something to do with judge having a shaved head, which is fashionable amongst both freaks like judge and also fashionable with the neo-nazi set.
I'm also moderately inked up. That's a big No-No for serious Jews so I think it may have taken them a while to grasp that I wasn't pulling their leg. I do get mistaken for a skinhead a lot because I stomp around in giant boots and lots of black but thankfully real skinheads can tell the difference.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:15 pm
by gendoikari87
judgepacker wrote:I'll add that their surprise might have had something to do with judge having a shaved head, which is fashionable amongst both freaks like judge and also fashionable with the neo-nazi set.
I'm also moderately inked up. That's a big No-No for serious Jews so I think it may have taken them a while to grasp that I wasn't pulling their leg. I do get mistaken for a skinhead a lot because I stomp around in giant boots and lots of black but thankfully real skinheads can tell the difference.
I think you mean BONEheads, I know one or two SHARPS (SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice) which are the original skinheads who are a little more than peeved at the Neo-Nazi's that stole the moniker. But I know a LOT of RASH's (Red Anarchist SkinHeads) Basically socialists with no hair. Not surprisingly both groups have a strong dislike for the boneheads who stole the name and turned it into a synonym for racist, nazi, especially the RASH's who being socialists have a double hatred for the fascists.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:21 pm
by whitey
What do all these groups have against hair?
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:28 pm
by gendoikari87
whitey wrote:What do all these groups have against hair?
well if they're anything like me, it gets hot as fuck down here in the summer, I just look horrible bald.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:41 pm
by Simmer down
I don't mind differences but I don't care much for someone hammering on one subject day and night no matter if its how god gave Moses the 2 amendment or their GRE scores.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:18 pm
by Elmo
Inquisitor wrote:I don't talk to people at the range, unless I brought them as a guest. It's my zen time.
Same here.
That's an extra benefit to my habit of doubling up my hearing protection, plugs and muffs. I want to hear the command to cease fire, and very little else.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:31 pm
by rolandson
Since when does the right claim dominion over the second amendment? Or, perhaps more accurately, since when did the liberal perspective abdicate dominion of the second?
I absolutely reject the concept that I am a stranger to any facet of the bill of rights. When confronted by an ignorant mind over the perceived oxymoron of an armed liberal I am likely to observe that a group of armed liberals created the bill of rights.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:21 pm
by AdAstra
The time that I talk to people on the range, IDPA, gun classes, it's all just technical stuff. I tend to participate in discussions on things like reloading tips and shooting techniques. I turn my back the second talk starts on politics or religion. Life is too short.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:47 pm
by AmirMortal
I've got LGC stickers on a few of my ammo boxes, which accompany my guns on range trips. My LGC hat usually makes an impression as well. I've had some very interesting conversations as a result, and unfortunately once in a while there is some hostility, but rarely gets more heated than a confused if terse recognition that the liberal they are addressing is armed and does in fact share their appreciation for firearms.
A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:50 pm
by spirit4earth
I'm on some other forums to gather specific information and knowledge about guns, ammo, etc. I certainly chime in on some of the topics as well. There is one forum in particular where, if I say anything that is not a narrow conservative opinion, a certain member calls me a "troll". There's not much room for liberal thinking on some of those forums, even though many posters claim not to be "anti" this or that. Obama is constantly bashed and blamed for problems in this country that began way before he surfaced. I do learn a lot, though, about guns. And about deeply conservative thinking! Kind of scary! I like it here on LGC.
. Glad you're here!
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:20 pm
by Catalyst
spirit4earth wrote:I'm on some other forums to gather specific information and knowledge about guns, ammo, etc. I certainly chime in on some of the topics as well. There is one forum in particular where, if I say anything that is not a narrow conservative opinion, a certain member calls me a "troll". There's not much room for liberal thinking on some of those forums, even though many posters claim not to be "anti" this or that. Obama is constantly bashed and blamed for problems in this country that began way before he surfaced. I do learn a lot, though, about guns. And about deeply conservative thinking! Kind of scary! I like it here on LGC.
. Glad you're here!
This is one of the main problems I have with the pletora of Gun-related podcasts out there. Tons of great gun information but sometimes the host goes off on anti-liberal rants that just makes me not want to hear them again.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:31 pm
by MtnMan
I find a strong correlation between the quantity / intensity of wingnut hot air and the context. The BS is highest on anonymous internet forums and somewhat lower among the gunshop sit-n-scratchers. At the range, amongst actual, real-life, shooters, I've never gotten into (or overheard) any polical discussion, nor do I see many polically / socially charged stickers and T shirts.
Seems like the most verbose d-nozzles talk the 2A talk, but don't walk the walk. Maybe they're just too retentive about hoarding ammo to squander any at the range?
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:31 pm
by Paladin
I try not to talk to anyone either at the range. That's why I'll wear my headphones under my muffs. Last couple of times a guy came to me to ask for pointers. They listened to my quick fix and were happy.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:57 pm
by bigmike0301
AmirMortal wrote:I've got LGC stickers on a few of my ammo boxes, which accompany my guns on range trips.
The old beater truck I drive to the range gets some stares but no overt comments. They may have that cognitive dissonance thing when they see me taking rifle cases from the bed of a truck festooned with "Armed Liberal", "Liberal, Gun Owner, Voter" and "Ask Me About My AR-15"
Talking to strangers at the range. Why? Except to pay attention that nobody is doing something stupid or dangerous, I listen only for the "Range is hot" or "Cease Fire" command.
But to the larger question: Most of the extreme wingers are so far out there that I seldom encounter them in the wild. The rest of the herd are too deep into groupthink. They communicate in bumper sticker slogans, believe only what Rush tells them, and repeat it only to the others in the herd. Mention the word 'Obama' and all brain function shuts down. For them, the conversation and communication ceases.
I can discuss politics all the live long day, but I'm paying for my range time. If you want me to expound on Obama, 2ndA stuff, Kenya, T'baggers or atheism (one of my favorites), then cough up the dough for the range fee and I'll give my views on Hannity and Bill-O while I'm reloading mags.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:02 pm
by Fukshot
I think there are lots of comments here about how we deal with various encounters. I'm hoping some will have a bit to say about more immersive situations, where your day-to-day is dominated by a worldview wildly more reactionary than your own and the impact it may have had on you.
CDFingers, got any thoughts on this?
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:28 pm
by punkinlobber
Hopefully this might answer Fukshot's request.
I used to work as a bush pilot connecting Anchorage to several coastal villages around the Cook Inlet and interior villages in the Matsu Valley. Many of the people I had to deal with were screaming hard core right of center. I had to face many Joe Miller and Sarah Palin supporters who when they found that I was a dyed in the wool liberal would challenge me at every level.
My first action was to spend a dollar and get a small soft cover book that contained both the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Most of my antagonists were deeply chagrined when I whipped out the little book and showed them precisely where in the Constitution I got my ideas. Their second regret came when I would hand them the little book and ask them to show me where they got their ideas.
They could not deal with a very polite opponent who went directly to the source and provided direct answers to their challenges. Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck did not provide them with a response to the Fox news challenge. They became lost and would respond by raising their voices and calling me a communist. This in turn would make my boss approach me in private and tell me to quit antagonizing the passengers. Oh yeah, they still wanted to fly with me since I had mastered every small runway regardless of conditions in our service area.
I try to keep most of my politics to myself in predominately conservative areas. When challenged, I never duck, I never run, I present my beliefs as clear and as respectfully as possible and I am always polite.
Fuck them.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:34 pm
by KVoimakas
Job numero 2 is Firearm Instructor. The guy who heads the company is a states rights conservative right winger. We've had many a knock down, drug out fight over politics but I'm the only other one that is certified to close to his level so I'm kept around.
One of the last classes we had, he made a point of mentioning that I'm a liberal to prove to his students that there are armed liberals. He had good intentions, but that didn't go over quite as well as he'd hoped. I actually documented what happened right after the class because my memory sucks. From email:
He was trying to open their mind to "Liberals are gun nuts, just like you and me!" So, what do you all think happened?
The exact opposite.
It wasn't everyone. But it was enough that before class on this last day, I had four people start in on me for my supposedly extremist liberal views. Now, I'm -10 on the x-axis on the political compass and consider myself an extremist. That's fine. But let me give you a couple examples and a few responses.
Marriage: it's a religious instutition!
Me: Then it shouldn't be recognized by the government. You know, separation of church and state.
Them: That's not how the Founding Fathers envisioned it! Go read the Constitution!
Me: You mean where it talks about separation of church of state?
Them:.......
Reagan: He's responsible for the boom of the Clinton years! And the boom during his own time!
Me: First, Reagan's an anti-gun asshole.
Them: Na-uh. (I'm serious. This was the response.)
Me: Mulford Act. Supported the AWB and pushed for MORE gun control until he died.
Them: Well, he was awesome in other ways!
Me: We have lower taxes now then we did under Reagan. Shouldn't we be booming now? The income inequality gap is worse then ever before because these so called job-creators AREN'T.
LGBT: a disease or a perversion. They can't get married! That's for people who can have kids!
Me: Thanks for telling me that I couldn't marry my wife since I'm sterile and that women past the child bearing years shouldn't remarry or marry.
Them: Ba-der-durrh. Well, they have the same rights as anyone else. A gay man can marry a woman, just like a straight man can.
Me: So they can marry who they love?
Them: *snort of derision from one woman*
Me: Walking away...
At this point, I had to walk away from this small group of students. I had trump on LGBT but I knew if I went there, it would've made the whole day worse (remember, before class).
LGBT Trump: That outdated attitude that sexual orientation is a disease or a perversion will die out when you do. The next generation DOESN'T care.
There's a whole bunch more, but damn. Most of these people would be considered your small town right wingers.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:36 pm
by Fukshot
Thanks guys. I know many of us have culture war stories because we are liberals who have interests in areas that are dominated by people many of us feel are a grave threat to our world.
I haven't told my own stories here because my life is such that my stories are about being visibly queer in the world and I don't shy away from telling those in dribs and drabs elsewhere on this forum. I often tell those stories when I am angry about something being argued.
I think lots of us here argue with great passion both because we care deeply and because many cary anger and frustration from our dealings with the rest of the world. Maybe it does us some good as a group to tell these stories more completely. I'll try to tell more of mine soon. I don't feel like I have the writing juice to do it right now, but something started this discussion (judgepacker, mostly) and it suddenly felt important to me that we not lose that spark.
What does everyone think? Am I too much the California Lesbian touchy-feely-punkrock-hippie?
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:37 pm
by KVoimakas
Am I too much the California Lesbian touchy-feely-punkrock-hippie?
Yes. But that's not a bad thing.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:40 pm
by Fukshot
KVoimakas wrote:Yes. But that's not a bad thing.
Oh crap! That's pretty much what my girlfriend says.
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:54 pm
by gendoikari87
Re: A stranger among douchebags
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:17 pm
by Fukshot
