The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I don't know about you, but I think this is really, really cool. Start Trek Replicators, here we come! Worth a listen, I think.

http://sciencefriday.com/segment/06/22/ ... world.html

More:

I work in mfg'ing and have been following this for awhile. That demo doesn't really replicate the wrench. The original is cast steel, the replication (if that's the right word) is a composite of sorts and would not hold up nearly as well as the original. I understand some 3D printers can create MIM (powder metallurgy) replicates but even those do not match the strength of cast metal. 3D printers definitely have their place though. They are going to put the hurt on traditional tool and die makers.

what happens when we have robots that can operate these machines and all manufacturing can be carried out autonomously?

gendoikari87 wrote:what happens when we have robots that can operate these machines and all manufacturing can be carried out autonomously?

We're already there. Manufacturing as a percentage of U.S. GDP only peaked in the last ten years or so. We are still a powerhouse. Mfg'ing jobs peaked long ago, in the late 60's, early 70's. Jobs in factories fell to robotics long ago.

troutkiller wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:what happens when we have robots that can operate these machines and all manufacturing can be carried out autonomously?

We're already there. Manufacturing as a percentage of U.S. GDP only peaked in the last ten years or so. We are still a powerhouse. Mfg'ing jobs peaked long ago, in the late 60's, early 70's. Jobs in factories fell to robotics long ago.

no, no, i mean EVERYTHING an nearly every part of the process. I.E. Outside of development, no human interaction

I suspect that machines will always need humans on some level.

troutkiller wrote:I suspect that machines will always need humans on some level.

not after singularity.

Listen to the podcast. Amongst other things, they discuss printing body part... Yes, functional human body parts... Like today. Living cells.

AmirMortal wrote:Listen to the podcast. Amongst other things, they discuss printing body part... Yes, functional human body parts... Like today. Living cells.

And...have they made these body parts yet? Where did cloning get us? Sure, living cells, great. But yet not the same. Cloning has not lived up to the hype. 3D printers won't live up to the hype either. It's a puff piece.

Yamaha has already used this technology to build cylinder heads with ports and cooling passages that could not be made any other way. The tech isn't yet what every armchair enthusiast thinks it will be, but it is real and useful and in use.

Jewelers have been using a wax 3D printer for at least ten years to make wax patterns that are then cast in metal.

well with the advent of the 3d microprinter that can print nano scale objects at a tenth of the cost of the next leading printer, the only steps to over come at that point are to enlarge and make cheaper. I wonder when printable circuits will be cheap. Combine that, the 3d microprinter, and MIM, and you've got a lot toward total automation.

edit: has anyone see the house printing technology they're working on, uses concrete to literally print out a house. Not sure how you'd get electrical and plumbing in though.

Edit2: wait a minute, you could put it under the house, print around it, bring it up through the floor and then fill in.

Fukshot wrote:Jewelers have been using a wax 3D printer for at least ten years to make wax patterns that are then cast in metal.

Those are casting dies. We used to have those handmade in wax for rock augers as recently as ten years ago. I'm sure that's how Yamaha is using 3D tech for heads.

gendoikari87 wrote:well with the advent of the 3d microprinter that can print nano scale objects at a tenth of the cost of the next leading printer, the only steps to over come at that point are to enlarge and make cheaper. I wonder when printable circuits will be cheap. Combine that, the 3d microprinter, and MIM, and you've got a lot toward total automation.

Kinda blurs the line between printers and machine tools, doesn't it? Still, MIM is often a poor substitute for cast metal. Learned that when my P-22 slide cracked in several places. Couldn't stand the stresses of Stingers and Golden Bullets. I couldn't imagine a bridge being built out of MIM.

troutkiller wrote:

Fukshot wrote:Jewelers have been using a wax 3D printer for at least ten years to make wax patterns that are then cast in metal.

Those are casting dies. We used to have those handmade for rock augers as recently as ten years ago. I'm sure that's how Yamaha is using 3D tech for heads.

gendoikari87 wrote:well with the advent of the 3d microprinter that can print nano scale objects at a tenth of the cost of the next leading printer, the only steps to over come at that point are to enlarge and make cheaper. I wonder when printable circuits will be cheap. Combine that, the 3d microprinter, and MIM, and you've got a lot toward total automation.

Kinda blurs the line between printers and machine tools, doesn't it? MIM is often a poor substitute for cast metal though. Learned that when my P-22 slide cracked in several places. Couldn't stand the stresses of Stingers and Golden Bullets. I couldn't imagine a bridge being built out of MIM.

metal will go by the wayside though once we learn how to use ceramics and nanotubes in this fashion. Also isn't there another method of printing metal that isn't as weak as MIM?

Not sure about nanotubes, but a buddy of mine was an engineer for Catepillar at their Columbus IN plant where he worked on the ceramic engine project for a decade or more. Cat's been working on that for almost 40 years, my impression is ceramics are just too brittle.

Never say never though, right?

troutkiller wrote:Not sure about nanotubes, but a buddy of mine was an engineer for Catepillar at their Columbus IN plant where he worked on the ceramic engine project for a decade or more. Cat's been working on that for almost 40 years, my impression is ceramics are just too brittle.

Never say never though, right?

No, always say never, makes the "impossible" happen quicker.

Seriously, the quality of pot metal aka MIM varies as widely as the quality of cast metal. Walther brought up the quality of the P-22 slide after the first few years which saw a lot of cracked slides. I'm sure it was quality problems with the consistency of the metal.

Interestingly, there's similar issues with composites in aircraft. Composites are held out as an aeronautical miracle but there are real questions about how the stuff holds up to battle damage. Aircraft aluminum will bend and even crack while retaining much of its original strength. Composites are an unknown quantity in some respects, but the stuff definitely won't bend like aluminum.

edit - oops, sorry to put the mods to work on that last post.

MIM is not pot metal. Lead-zinc-tin alloys are pot metal.

Yamaha was using laser fused aluminum for cylinder heads, not lost wax castings.

Ahhh...laser cutting. Never seen that one. One company I worked at made huge milling machines for aluminum. The thing was as big as a house and would simultaneously mill ass't parts from aluminum blocks close to a foot thick with the width and length of a semi-truck trailer. That same outfit made water cutting machines for composites in a factory in Israel. Amazing stuff.

troutkiller wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:Listen to the podcast. Amongst other things, they discuss printing body part... Yes, functional human body parts... Like today. Living cells.

And...have they made these body parts yet? Where did cloning get us? Sure, living cells, great. But yet not the same. Cloning has not lived up to the hype. 3D printers won't live up to the hype either. It's a puff piece.

http://www.ted.com/talks/anthony_atala_ ... quote=1597
Yes they have!!!
The kid in this TED Talk has a bladder that they made and the kidney sounds promising. I can only hope they succeed, because I'm hooked up to a peritoneal dialysis machine as I type this.

printing body parts.... dude ... how long till they start printing whole animals? Custom ones.




OOH OOH OOH, DIBBS ON THE FIRST DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!

roadtohell wrote:The kid in this TED Talk has a bladder that they made and the kidney sounds promising. I can only hope they succeed, because I'm hooked up to a peritoneal dialysis machine as I type this.

I learn something every day. Using a patient's own cells? So this is cloning.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 184632.htm

troutkiller wrote: And...have they made these body parts yet? Where did cloning get us? Sure, living cells, great. But yet not the same. Cloning has not lived up to the hype. 3D printers won't live up to the hype either. It's a puff piece.

What does? It looks like a great way to go straight from CAD to an investment casting model.

I saw this tech used on Jay Leno's Garage. He uses it to remake unobtainable parts on some of his ultra rare and valuable collector cars. Replicates the part in the resin or whatever the printer uses first, then has an exact one custom cast or milled or whatever at outside shops. Seems like it might come in handy for the same application on old guns.

New body parts? Hmmmm....
Can they like, scale stuff UP a few sizes?

Cabrito wrote: Can they like, scale stuff UP a few sizes?

has to be big enough to scan first.