The Liberal Gun Club Forum

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/2 ... 16479.html

BELLEFONTE, Pa. -- Jerry Sandusky entered the Centre County Courthouse Friday as one of the most celebrated figures in the history of Penn State sports. He left a convicted child molester.

Following two days of jury deliberations, Sandusky was found guilty Friday of molesting several young boys.

The 68-year-old could spend the rest of his life in prison.

Like I said previous times before, "life in prison" is a giant waste of fucking money. If everyone thinks that this man is a piece of shit, than why are we wasting our tax money on him. And if you cared about not killing him, or letting him die in prison, then why are there not other options?

Ex-Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky was found guilty on 45 of 48 counts of sexually abusing boys and could face up to 442 years in prison. It was a good day for Pennsylvania prosecutors, in a second case in Philadephia Monsignor William Lynn who supervised clergy was convicted of one count of endangering children and could face up to 7 years in prison.

“Priests who sexually abuse youngsters and the chancery officials who enabled it can expect criminal prosecution.”

Sandusky
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a- ... story.html

Lynn
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/us/ph ... wanted=all

I give Sandusky about 12 months before that fucker gets whacked in prison.

In the big house, rapists and child abusers tend to not fare well...

G&G posted this already

Sorry G&G didn't see you posted this already.

Merged threads.

DenistheMenace wrote:Like I said previous times before, "life in prison" is a giant waste of fucking money. If everyone thinks that this man is a piece of shit, than why are we wasting our tax money on him. And if you cared about not killing him, or letting him die in prison, then why are there not other options?

Do you have something in mind to do with him? I always think of life in prison as society spending the money to disappear him from the rest of our lives; don't really care about punishment. I'm against executions because I don't believe the state should be trusted with that power, not because I don't think some people should die..

I'd also like to add that I'm incredibly relieved that neither got off, especially given the disgusting levels of victim blaming in both of their defenses. It's a shame the we can't just expect them to be found guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence. We also have to worry that a few jurors will go "He seems like a good guy and I really like football and his wife didn't see him doing it..."

GuitarsandGuns wrote:Merged threads.

Thanks !

Van is probably right, Sandusky could get wacked just like the late defrocked priest and convicted pedophile John Geoghan who was murdered in a Massachusetts prison. The next big clergy trial is the Catholic Bishop of Kansas City, KS who as a mandated reporter was indicted for failure to report a priest who had kiddy porn on his computer. The bishop is a member of the ultra conservative Opus Dei organization.

I bet they put sandusky in the shu, secured housing unit, not general population. He may well live for years and years.

I'm suddenly reminded of bowers v devito, where the ruling was the state isn't required to protect from being murdered.

Fukshot wrote:

DenistheMenace wrote:Like I said previous times before, "life in prison" is a giant waste of fucking money. If everyone thinks that this man is a piece of shit, than why are we wasting our tax money on him. And if you cared about not killing him, or letting him die in prison, then why are there not other options?

Do you have something in mind to do with him? I always think of life in prison as society spending the money to disappear him from the rest of our lives; don't really care about punishment. I'm against executions because I don't believe the state should be trusted with that power, not because I don't think some people should die..

I don't really agree on this because I don't believe states hold the power of execution as a cruel or unusual punishment.It is nothing more than a means to an end of someone who no longer deserves to live but should only be reserved for truly heinous crimes and thats what the jury is for IMHO,I think in some capitol cases that the jury also recommends something in the sentence but I am not sure but if I am right and they do recommend death then it's not a "state power" thing any longer,it was enacted by 12 represenetives of the people

At least half the kids I work with have been abused. Seeing this guy go away helps victims speak up.

I'm really surprised that those nimrods on the jury from penn state got it right. I only wish that old fool paterno was still alive to get some justice from this too since he allowed it to happen and cover it up.

I spent 3 days in the brig once. (I was framed) I would prefer death by cop to life in prison.

Gary Gilmore was right.

Actually our prisons are becoming some of the most cruel.

I think capitol punishment is the easy way out. He is not a danger to other inmates. I would hope he could be on the receiving end of what he gave to his victims.


I'm afraid he might be too old and ugly for that.

Although as a male friend of mine who spent time in a
Turkish Prison (Midnight Express), said to Wildvine, "Men will fuck dirt"

Vodkin wrote:I don't really agree on this because I don't believe states hold the power of execution as a cruel or unusual punishment.It is nothing more than a means to an end of someone who no longer deserves to live but should only be reserved for truly heinous crimes and thats what the jury is for IMHO,I think in some capitol cases that the jury also recommends something in the sentence but I am not sure but if I am right and they do recommend death then it's not a "state power" thing any longer,it was enacted by 12 represenetives of the people

Jury selection is a process managed by the state. Delivery of evidence is a process managed by the state. Investigation is a process managed by the state. Jurors are rarely in a position to take the power out of the state's hands. Innocent people are found guilty by juries all of the time. Death is permanent and makes a bad decision irreversable. Our criminal justice system is wantonly racist and classist and must be fixed before it is trusted with permanent decisions.

The question of the morality of the death penalty (and its proven lack of meaningful deterrent effect) is a separate issue that I'm not certain on.

Back on topic. I always wonder how many people are complicit in these kinds of sex abuse cases.
They'll never get charged. How many parents didn't believe their children.

Or how many did believe them but considered it a way up.

Sister Aloysius meets with Donald Miller's mother regarding her suspicions. Mrs. Miller (Viola Davis) shocks Sister Aloysius with her disinterest in the alleged misconduct on Father Flynn's part. As far as she is concerned Donald need only last to the end of the school year, as graduation from a prestigious church school would increase his chances of going to a decent high school. It is hinted that Donald is homosexual and revealed that his father is abusive, with the implication that one causes the other. Mrs. Miller begs that Sister Aloysius drop the matter, feeling that Father Flynn is a source of inspiration to Donald and a shield from the abuse he receives at home. She becomes angry when Sister Aloysius refuses to compromise and threatens to throw Donald out of the school. Mrs. Miller believes that Donald would be punished for a thing he was not the cause of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubt_%282008_film%29

highdesert wrote: Van is probably right, Sandusky could get wacked just like the late defrocked priest and convicted pedophile John Geoghan who was murdered in a Massachusetts prison.

Sandusky will be very high profile prisoner. There will be a lifetime of free cigarettes and great respect for the prisoner who whacks Jerry Sandusky!

Fukshot wrote:

Vodkin wrote:I don't really agree on this because I don't believe states hold the power of execution as a cruel or unusual punishment.It is nothing more than a means to an end of someone who no longer deserves to live but should only be reserved for truly heinous crimes and thats what the jury is for IMHO,I think in some capitol cases that the jury also recommends something in the sentence but I am not sure but if I am right and they do recommend death then it's not a "state power" thing any longer,it was enacted by 12 represenetives of the people

Jury selection is a process managed by the state. Delivery of evidence is a process managed by the state. Investigation is a process managed by the state. Jurors are rarely in a position to take the power out of the state's hands. Innocent people are found guilty by juries all of the time. Death is permanent and makes a bad decision irreversable. Our criminal justice system is wantonly racist and classist and must be fixed before it is trusted with permanent decisions.

The question of the morality of the death penalty (and its proven lack of meaningful deterrent effect) is a separate issue that I'm not certain on.

I'll let ya know on this,I have jury duty this week Wensday,I think it's a trial where a guy killed his wife and her lover in front of about 2 dozen witnesses but I really hope it's not as it was a pretty well known case here and most people already have him convicted,I knew I shouldn't have went to the mailbox today

I'm not a supporter of the death penalty, too many people have been released from death row because they were later found innocent. Our judicial system is flawed, so is every other judicial system throughout the world - cops make errors or are corrupt; we depend too much on eye witness evidence which is the most unreliable; forensic labs make errors; prosecutors and judges are political animals and have their own agenda etc.

I agree with G&G that others in child sex abuse cases have been complicit, the most obvious in the Sandusky case is his wife. In the Philadelphia Archdiocese case the conviction of Msgr Lynn was a milestone, he transferred pedophile priests and just blamed it on the "dead guy" Cardinal Bevilaqua. I hope his case does not get overturned on appeal.

It is one thing to feel and understand the impulse of revenge and another very different thing to accept that the "state" will do our dirty business for us. I do not support the death penalty for the reasons that highdesert and fukshot stated. Unless we were without error and without prejudice, able to determine which people presented an imminent threat to society that called for them to be killed; the death penalty is just a flawed method for exacting revenge.

I agree that many people use prison as another method of revenge and now, as a money making method. I think prison should be reserved for the most dangerous offenders that have a pattern of repeating their dangerous behaviors and cannot be rehabilitated. Sandusky is disgusting for what he did and he should be kept away from society to prevent him from victimizing others. His conviction can serve the dual purpose of informing victims that they will be protected, and other potential purpetrators that they will suffer consequences. I understand the desire people have for him to feel some of the pain that he inflicted on his victims, but that won't do anything for anybody and it is just perpetuating the violence in the world.

I just think we need to try to be better than that.

Caliman73 wrote: I understand the desire people have for him to feel some of the pain that he inflicted on his victims, but that won't do anything for anybody and it is just perpetuating the violence in the world.

I just think we need to try to be better than that.

We used to be better than that.

We can be again.

revenge should never be the business of the state, and I simply see no other purpose served by an execution. I am offended that the state seeks the justification of 'the people' to kill in my name. I am very proud of my governor who has put an albeit temporary moratorium on executions in Oregon during his tenure. I hope that it becomes permanent.

I agree with you and Caliman73, revenge should not be the motivating factor though victim statements at sentencing hearings bring that element into it. I commend Governor Kitzhaber for his moratorium. California will have a measure on the November ballot to allow voters to decide on replacing the death penalty with life without parole. Capital punishment is a flawed system and even some law and order advocates agree that it costs too much.

Growing numbers of conservatives in California have joined the effort to repeal the state's capital punishment law, expressing frustration with its price tag and the rarity of executions. California has executed 13 inmates in 23 years, and prisoners are far more likely to die of old age on death row than by the executioner's needle.

November's ballot measure would commute the sentences of more than 700 people on death row to life without possibility of parole, a term that would then become the state's most severe form of criminal punishment.

Most death row inmates would be returned to the general prison population and be expected to work. Their earnings would go to crime victims.

A three-year study by a judge and a law professor concluded last year that the death penalty in California costs $183 million more to administer than life without possibility of parole, and that California's 13 executions cost taxpayers $4 billion. The additional expense includes legal costs for expanded trials and appeals and for housing inmates in single cells.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/24 ... a-20120424
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/20 ... s-20110620

DenistheMenace wrote:Like I said previous times before, "life in prison" is a giant waste of fucking money. If everyone thinks that this man is a piece of shit, than why are we wasting our tax money on him. And if you cared about not killing him, or letting him die in prison, then why are there not other options?

LWOP isn't exactly a picnic, and it is quite a bit less expensive than capital punishment and the appeals that lead up to it.

What are the other options that cost less?

Chemical castration and a release after a few years? I think life in prison is a fine place for this guy.