The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I just wondered what anyone's thoughts are about using a gun that was once used to commit suicide. My uncle used a Remington 700 .30-06 to kill himself in 1986. My Dad still has the gun among his collection and I've thought about asking him if I could have it for hunting. My Dad no longer hunts due to MS and multiple other medical conditions, so he won't be using it. And he has the exact same model and caliber of his own. As far as I know, the gun hasn't been shot since that day back in '86 and is just sitting in the "gun room" at my parents' house.

I'm fairly sentimental about inanimate objects. For example, I have a cheap POS Fender Squire Stratocaster guitar that I got in 1991. I think it cost about $150 back then. It really is a POS, but it was my first guitar and I would never ever let go of it. I don't know how many hours of playing I have on that guitar, but the frets are so worn down that they should be replaced. Some strings buzz because I can't set the action correctly due to the worn frets.

The gun I'm talking about doesn't hold that sentimentality for me, but it very well could for my Dad. I don't really know how to broach the subject with my Dad.

Anyone have any experience like this or general input?

Edit: It was my Dad's brother. I didn't make that clear.

Sounds to me like it's a good gun; served someone's needs in a desperate time. I'd think of it as good luck.

You could start the conversation with the rather innocuous question regarding the sentimentality of objects. If he imparts meaning or character to objects in general, it's a safe bet that the remington would be one of them...

He might be glad to have it out of his house.

Inquisitor wrote:He might be glad to have it out of his house.

I would bet on it.

I wonder that about surplus weapons sometimes. What exactly were they used for? Odds are they were in the hands of a grunt, and, judging by the standards of marksmenship of conscripts in a firefight, probably didn't hit anybody on the other side. But who can really tell if their M 91/30 was used for more nefarious purposes in the hands of the NKVD?
I also wonder about the Arisaka carbine I have- did somebody shoot at some GI or Marine with it? I don't think so, since Type 38 carbines were usually issued to rear echelon troops like engineers and supply clerks but who knows?
I rationalize it by telling myself it is the brain and the trigger finger that makes the decision to kill. The weapon used- rifle, knife, rock- whatever it is, is just a means to an end.
Still, I shy away from WW2 mausers, P-38s, and such... I just feel uncomfortable with a weapon with the swastika on it. No judgement on people who collect them, though.

the comedian wrote:I wonder that about surplus weapons sometimes. What exactly were they used for? Odds are they were in the hands of a grunt, and, judging by the standards of marksmenship of conscripts in a firefight, probably didn't hit anybody on the other side. But who can really tell if their M 91/30 was used for more nefarious purposes in the hands of the NKVD?
I also wonder about the Arisaka carbine I have- did somebody shoot at some GI or Marine with it? I don't think so, since Type 38 carbines were usually issued to rear echelon troops like engineers and supply clerks but who knows?
I rationalize it by telling myself it is the brain and the trigger finger that makes the decision to kill. The weapon used- rifle, knife, rock- whatever it is, is just a means to an end.
Still, I shy away from WW2 mausers, P-38s, and such... I just feel uncomfortable with a weapon with the swastika on it. No judgement on people who collect them, though.

Pretty much my thoughts.

I'd just be upfront and ask him what he would think about you using the gun,I am sure it probably does hold some sentimental value to him and therefore would never sell it but passing it along to a family member so it will get some use wouldn't to far out of line IMHO,anyway you never know either way until you ask so I guess just start there

All you can do is ask. Personally, I'd be more than happy to be rid of a weapon used in the suicide of a loved one.

Hello,

Back in the summer of '96, we had a shooting in Wabash County.

The man who went off the deep end was a drug councilor at the county over. He himself was done up on God knows what, but there was cocaine and heroin in his system, along with pills and not a little meth.

He was all over a county road with his boat in tow. The boat collided with Mr. Fred Griffith, my brilliant history teacher, while he was on his motorcycle. Mr. Griffith had either left his 1911 at home or in a saddle bag; it wasn't available to him while he was sitting in a ditch with a busted up leg anyway.

An elderly man who happened to live down the road saw Mr. Griffith go into the ditch, and a passer-by also stopped to help.

The drug councilor decided not to leave witnesses to the accident and opened up with an illegally obtained pistol.

He fatally wounded Mr. Griffith and the old man. He paralyzed the passer-by with a shot in the lower back.

A classmate and volunteer firefighter, Billy Swan, was last out of Lagro and first on scene, where he caught a bullet through the windshield. The bullet then impacted his chest. The reaction to an impact like that is to stiffen, and when Billy stiffened, he floored the accelerator. This took his truck deep into a cornfield. Billy could have been saved, but everyone thought since he was last out of Lagro he wasn't there yet. They were wrong, and by the time he was found deep in the corn, he was dead.

Billy's brother took to driving Billy's truck after having the windshield repaired. Everyone just sort of figured it made him feel closer to his deceased brother. Whether this was true or whether it was just a good truck, I do not know. A little of both maybe.

Later, the rest of the Swan family was killed when their single-engine plane they were flying cut out and crashed. I believe the only survivor is a sister to Billy who decided not to go flying that day.

You could say that family was a mite unlucky.

Anyway, I hope this is somewhat relevant. Something, someplace in there.

Regards,

Wabatuckian, it's completely relevant. I welcome any and all input. (Though I'm still waiting on your reply to the plant quiz )

Not sure how relevant it is, but my ex, who is Jewish, owns a 1943 swastika stamped P38. It was gifted to her, and at first she was unsettled by the thought of who'd owned it, and what it'd been used for. The story behind it was that an American service member killed the Nazi in close combat, and took it as a trophy.

I pointed out that as a jew, her possession of the pistol all these years later was a significant boon, and one more thumb in the eye of the Nazi movement. Oh, the sweet irony!

Her father is very much anti-gun, and was extremely uncomfortable to learn that she owned it. We all discussed the history and circumstances of the pistol, and while he was still not happy that she had a gun at all, let alone one that had actually killed people, but I think he slowly became ok with the idea after considering the fact of Jews owning that particular object.

Sentimentality is an odd thing, and emotions continue to defy logic, but as was already mentioned, he may be glad to be rid of it. My guess is that if he really hated the object that much, he would have gotten rid of it 25yrs ago, particularly since he has a duplicate already.

All you can do is ask. Just be sensitive about it.

Cabrito wrote:All you can do is ask. Personally, I'd be more than happy to be rid of a weapon used in the suicide of a loved one.

I agree, it's just the memories attached to it.

JamesH wrote:I just wondered what anyone's thoughts are about using a gun that was once used to commit suicide. My uncle used a Remington 700 .30-06 to kill himself in 1986. My Dad still has the gun among his collection and I've thought about asking him if I could have it for hunting. My Dad no longer hunts due to MS and multiple other medical conditions, so he won't be using it. And he has the exact same model and caliber of his own. As far as I know, the gun hasn't been shot since that day back in '86 and is just sitting in the "gun room" at my parents' house.

I'm fairly sentimental about inanimate objects. For example, I have a cheap POS Fender Squire Stratocaster guitar that I got in 1991. I think it cost about $150 back then. It really is a POS, but it was my first guitar and I would never ever let go of it. I don't know how many hours of playing I have on that guitar, but the frets are so worn down that they should be replaced. Some strings buzz because I can't set the action correctly due to the worn frets.

The gun I'm talking about doesn't hold that sentimentality for me, but it very well could for my Dad. I don't really know how to broach the subject with my Dad.

Anyone have any experience like this or general input?

Edit: It was my Dad's brother. I didn't make that clear.

I read your post this morning, James, and it was in the back of my mind all day.


I would have had it melted down or sold off years ago. It IS an inanimate object, of course. No "molecular memory" or such nonsense, but I wouldn't be able to handle it or use it without thinking of the dead loved one.

The final moments of a suicide--especially a gun suicide--would be horrific beyond imagining, I think. I know it's pretty horrific for family members like your dad. I think I'd leave dead things lying and not even broach the subject with my dad (if I were in your situation.)

On another forum I hang out at, one of the members had to make that decision about a Springfield 1911 he had that his dad used to end his stage 4 cancer earlier his year. When he got it out of evidence a couple of months ago and was cleaning it up I offered to send him the grips I was t going to use on my AR build of the rosewood grips on his pistol were a loss. I also let him know that had I known him before the incident I would have been glad to take the duty of cleaning it up off his hands. He paid for a year's membership to the site as his way of saying thanks for the offer.

He ended up selling it off and buying a new one that held no memories for him.

To answer the question, I would have no problem buying a suicide gun. At least you know it should function properly.

Although I am personally not sentimental about negative object memories, aka I would totally buy a car knowing that someone had been hit with it, I get the impression, putting myself in that situation, that perhaps your dad has held onto it this long for a reason. Maybe it reminds him of happier hunts with his brother, or is something he reflects upon when considering the big questions of the universe.

If he isn't going to hunt any longer, I'd personally feel more comfortable asking to use HIS gun, rather than your uncle's. Different generations hold onto things in ways we might not be immediately able to relate to, without having the same cultural context.

JamesH, I personally wouldn't have a problem using such a gun, and it sounds like you wouldn't either.

But, as others have suggested, it is your father's feelings that must be paramount.

Not knowing your father, I have no idea how he feels about it. But, putting myself in his position, it is at least possible he might think the gun has already taken one loved one from him, and he wouldn't want to put it in a position to take another (you) through accident or whatever.

You'll know best if that is what he might be feeling.

This is pretty much like anchovies on pizza. There's no real right or wrong other than respecting your dad's wishes perhaps. If he or you have strong feelings about the gun and wish to respect them by not using it, that's the end of the story. If you decide you want to override your feelings and use the gun anyway, that's up to you too.

Personally, I don't think I would want to use a weapon that killed someone close to me - if nothing else it would be a constant reminder of a painful memory. I'd put the weapon back in the closet and order myself a pizza - with anchovies.

Jinx makes an excellent point! Just ask to use the your fathers version of the same rifle. Probably much less painful.

AmirMortal wrote:Not sure how relevant it is, but my ex, who is Jewish, owns a 1943 swastika stamped P38. It was gifted to her, and at first she was unsettled by the thought of who'd owned it, and what it'd been used for. The story behind it was that an American service member killed the Nazi in close combat, and took it as a trophy.

I pointed out that as a jew, her possession of the pistol all these years later was a significant boon, and one more thumb in the eye of the Nazi movement. Oh, the sweet irony!

Her father is very much anti-gun, and was extremely uncomfortable to learn that she owned it. We all discussed the history and circumstances of the pistol, and while he was still not happy that she had a gun at all, let alone one that had actually killed people, but I think he slowly became ok with the idea after considering the fact of Jews owning that particular object.

If I was Jewish, I would love to have something like that, as a stick in the eye of the Nazis. Ha ha fuckers, I'm still here! I'm still fucking here!

[quote="Progurt]If I was Jewish, I would love to have something like that, as a stick in the eye of the Nazis. Ha ha fuckers, I'm still here! I'm still fucking here![/quote]

I can see how some people might see it that way. As a trophy to remember the defeat of an enemy. Personaly, I would be very uncomfortable even touching such a gun.

My well-worn 1943 Izhevsk M38 with the commie hammer and sickle and its pitted barrel is one that I can think had a good chance of being used against Nazis, and that makes it special to me. Fuck Nazis.

Progurt wrote:My well-worn 1943 Izhevsk M38 with the commie hammer and sickle and its pitted barrel is one that I can think had a good chance of being used against Nazis, and that makes it special to me. Fuck Nazis.

I like the idea put forth by some of you of asking your dad to use his rifle. He might even offer his brothers gun since it was just sitting there. If not, the n let the whole thing rest.

paul

the comedian wrote:I wonder that about surplus weapons sometimes. What exactly were they used for? Odds are they were in the hands of a grunt, and, judging by the standards of marksmenship of conscripts in a firefight, probably didn't hit anybody on the other side. But who can really tell if their M 91/30 was used for more nefarious purposes in the hands of the NKVD?
I also wonder about the Arisaka carbine I have- did somebody shoot at some GI or Marine with it? I don't think so, since Type 38 carbines were usually issued to rear echelon troops like engineers and supply clerks but who knows?
I rationalize it by telling myself it is the brain and the trigger finger that makes the decision to kill. The weapon used- rifle, knife, rock- whatever it is, is just a means to an end.
Still, I shy away from WW2 mausers, P-38s, and such... I just feel uncomfortable with a weapon with the swastika on it. No judgement on people who collect them, though.

That's the feeling I always got when walking through the U505 in Chicago. That thing was sneaking around, killing people and today we ooooh and ahhhh at it (myself included).