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Obama administration will not deport younger illegal aliens.
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:32 am
by GuitarsandGuns
Obama Administration To Stop Deporting Younger Undocumented Immigrants And Grant Work Permits
I guess only the parents are going to get kicked out.
Age discrimination? WTF is this?!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/1 ... 99658.html
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration will stop deporting and begin granting work permits to younger undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and have since led law-abiding lives. The election-year initiative addresses a top priority of an influential Latino electorate that has been vocal in its opposition to administration deportation policies.
The policy change, described to The Associated Press by two senior administration officials, will affect as many as 800,000 immigrants who have lived in fear of deportation. It also bypasses Congress and partially achieves the goals of the so-called DREAM Act, a long-sought but never enacted plan to establish a path toward citizenship for young people who came to the United States without documents but who have attended college or served in the military.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:40 am
by ErikO
If the DHS will work with the IRS To give a $680 tax credit to RA's who got their citizenship in the last three years and give the same credit to RA's that have been here for the same period of time, I can support an amnesty for illegals.
Otherwise, I'm undecided on this.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 am
by Progurt
Good to see hat the Obama Administration is able to circumvent an obstructive Congress and use the powers of the executive branch to selectively enforce laws it considers unjust.
I wonder where else a similar principle could be applied. Certainly not to the drug war?
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:15 pm
by rolandson
I am so conflicted on this.
I stood in line with spouse, year after year, as she would do the then INS thing. Filled out the forms and paid all of the fees associated with being here legally. I saw first hand what she was subjected to and have long thought that every citizen should spend a couple of hours in an immigration office just to see how horribly non-citizens are treated. The final insult was the nearly $1000 to jump through the naturalization hoops, on top of everything else, just to listen to a baboon (George W) welcome her to citizenship via a video...
I feel just a little resentful that those who elected to circumvent our laws should believe that they are somehow entitled to special consideration. Should I do the same in Mexico, Canada, Europe or Japan, I would experience the full force of their respective laws...and then be unceremoniously tossed back to the US.
I have no issue with anyone seeking a better life. I do however feel that taking their place in line like everyone else is an obligation that no one has a right to dismiss.
So I remain conflicted.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:44 pm
by Progurt
Way I see it, these kids didn't circumvent the law, their parents did. So long as the kids are contributing members of society, it's a net gain.
Side note, just saw this on facebook:
The battles we never fight are the ones we never win.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:04 pm
by Zapp Brannigan
I am glad. My mom was undocumented back in the 80s she had the fortune of marrying a guy from southern Texas; the lady has lived here for over 25 years and hasn't even gotten a traffic ticket that and she gave birth and raised two fairly productive children. I know and have met undocumented students and it is sad that these bright kids are stuck in limbo in terms of educational and career opportunities.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:09 pm
by Elmo
Yeah, that's one important lesson we need to draw from this.
Activism works, sometimes. At least it's worth a try.
Where else might we be able to hold Obama's feet to the fire and move the ball in the right direction for a change?
The irony is, the should be a net political winner for Obama and the Democrats. Sure it will alienate some, but those people were going to vote Rethug anyway, when push came to shove.
Now the ball is in Romney's court. Hug his bigot base and further alienate the Republican party from Latinos? We'll see.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm
by rolandson
Progurt wrote:Way I see it, these kids didn't circumvent the law, their parents did. So long as the kids are contributing members of society, it's a net gain.
I don't necessarily disagree; I get that children are not necessarily responsible for "sins of the father", but now I need convincing that special consideration is warranted, that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others who didn't elect to ignore our laws.
Convince me.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:39 pm
by Xela
rolandson wrote:...that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others...
It's been my experience that this is one issue (like guns) where convincing really doesn't take place that often. We are very entrenched when it comes to our perspectives on immigration.
Just a couple of notes found online for your consideration:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... xes29.html
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opini ... ation-west
Myth No. 1 — Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. They actually pay a variety of taxes. Because many undocumented workers hold jobs, a large number pay income, Social Security and Medicare taxes, as well as sales taxes when they purchase items in stores and property taxes when they rent or own homes. One study found that they pay $162 billion annually in federal, state and local taxes. Another project found that the average immigrant paid $1,800 more in taxes than government benefits received.
Xela
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:20 pm
by gendoikari87
Flooding of the market with cheap labor associated with illegals is a problem caused by capitalism, the way I see it, the more people there are to work, the more work gets done, the more work gets done, the better all of our lives are. the part holding things back are the capitalists concepts of investment created labor. So the way I see it is, dump capitalism, get to work, we all profit.
YMMV
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:21 pm
by Progurt
rolandson wrote:Progurt wrote:Way I see it, these kids didn't circumvent the law, their parents did. So long as the kids are contributing members of society, it's a net gain.
I don't necessarily disagree; I get that children are not necessarily responsible for "sins of the father", but now I need convincing that special consideration is warranted, that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others who didn't elect to ignore our laws.
Convince me.
We may have a difference of opinion on it. My reasons are my own, based in my values. I am a 13th generation direct male line resident of the US. Or as high as 17 depending on which line you want to look at; I have ancestors who were among the earliest settlers of New Amsterdam. I know my ancestors didn't ask for permission in every case, so I'm not too worried about later immigrants asking permission. I appreciate that there are a lot of people who do follow the rules. If I was emigrating to another country, I would do the same. It has a number of ancillary benefits that sneaking over a fence in the desert does not.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:29 pm
by rolandson
Xela wrote:rolandson wrote:...that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others...
It's been my experience that this is one issue (like guns) where convincing really doesn't take place that often. We are very entrenched when it comes to our perspectives on immigration.
Yet that is not the case here. The opportunity has arisen to discuss the issue with one who is amenable to convincing. I am looking for something that will help displace my sense of distain over idea that not all immigrants are being treated equally.
So far the response hasn't been very encouraging.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:41 pm
by Progurt
rolandson wrote:Xela wrote:rolandson wrote:...that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others...
It's been my experience that this is one issue (like guns) where convincing really doesn't take place that often. We are very entrenched when it comes to our perspectives on immigration.
Yet that is not the case here. The opportunity has arisen to discuss the issue with one who is amenable to convincing. I am looking for something that will help displace my sense of distain over idea that not all immigrants are being treated equally.
So far the response hasn't been very encouraging.
Even though there may be a path to some measure of legitimacy for children of illegal immigrants, it's a much safer and more certain path for immigrants who come in legally and follow the rules, and there's much more in the way of solid benefits and security for them. It's a trade-off.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:15 pm
by Fukshot
The reason not to resent decent treatment of undocumented immigrants, despite the fact that documented immigrants have jumped through more hoops, is that undocumented immigrants rarely are people who had the opportunity to play by the rules. Coming undocumented is the only way around the US' blatantly racist and classist immigration policies.
White people with college educations or Asians with PHDs can get in. Brown people who are laborers would simply be rejected if the applied for documented immigrant status. Every argument I see that says "these people didn't play by the rules" seems to completely ignore the fact that the rules are fucked and stacked heavily against certain people.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:35 pm
by Xela
rolandson wrote:Xela wrote:rolandson wrote:...that these same children and their parents should reap rewards that are denied others...
It's been my experience that this is one issue (like guns) where convincing really doesn't take place that often. We are very entrenched when it comes to our perspectives on immigration.
Yet that is not the case here. The opportunity has arisen to discuss the issue with one who is amenable to convincing. I am looking for something that will help displace my sense of distain over idea that not all immigrants are being treated equally.
So far the response hasn't been very encouraging.
Should ALL immigrants be treated equally?
What is your opinion of displaced peoples, refugees, war orphans ("child soldiers"), etc. that are brought to the US from around the world as a result of US foreign policy arrangements and/or diplomatic compromises?
Couldn't these kids we speak of (they are culturally Americans really) be viewed with the same or similar eyes? That is, as young peoples trying to adapt to a circumstance that was beyond their control at an early age?
Xela
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:38 pm
by gendoikari87
"Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:17 pm
by rolandson
Spouse isn't white, wasn't college educated before she arrived and doesn't hold a PhD. The process she experienced at the offering of the then INS was decidedly bigoted. Still she stood in line, paid the fees and suffered the indignity and humiliation of intimate physical examinations by men she didn't know. I called it abuse and found it disgusting and I do not blame anyone for wanting to avoid it.
Treat all immigrants equally? By all means. It starts with respect. I just happen to feel that such is a two way street...if one wants respect, show respect.
I wholeheartedly support means to legitimize those here illegally, however I also can't seem to shake the sense that legitimacy is also a two way street. The idea of splitting families and uprooting persons who have built lives here is repugnant. So herein lies the rub; what do we say to those who put up with the abuse and indignation of our immigration procedures? How do we give them some sense of value for bothering to respect the laws of their adopted country?
Xela wrote:
What is your opinion of displaced peoples, refugees, war orphans ("child soldiers"), etc. that are brought to the US from around the world as a result of US foreign policy arrangements and/or diplomatic compromises?
Couldn't these kids we speak of (they are culturally Americans really) be viewed with the same or similar eyes? That is, as young peoples trying to adapt to a circumstance that was beyond their control at an early age?
I welcome them of course, and I have already commented on the 'sins of the father' sort of thing.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:32 pm
by Progurt
rolandson wrote:So herein lies the rub; what do we say to those who put up with the abuse and indignation of our immigration procedures?
Thank you for following the established procedures.
rolandson wrote:How do we give them some sense of value for bothering to respect the laws of their adopted country?
Like I said, their way of getting in, the correct and legal and documented way, was the safest and most secure method. I think we can consider that to be the reward. There's no risk of dying in the desert or having your cobbled together boat sink in the Gulf, or being indebted to organized criminals. There's no risk of getting grabbed by an INS raid at your home or workplace. I definitely appreciate people who followed the rules, and if I was in their place I would be doing the same. If I ever get to emigrate to Canada, I'll do it by following the rules instead of sneaking across a river some night.
I get that you're coming at this from a position of desiring fairness and a level playing field, and I appreciate that.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:49 pm
by Xela
R,
I think your situation (immigration cases are all unique) your status as a US citizen may have played a big role. Especially if you were married before or maybe even after, submitting the request for permanent residency.
In any case, I appreciate your sincere willingness to chat about this.
I'm standing back a bit now (2nd glass of proseco),
Cheers LGC,
Xela
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:14 pm
by Vodkin
I have nothing against immigrants in the least and I only have a few requirements I would like them to meet
1 please learn english,it's the language of our country and if you are coming here from another you should learn it,if I was moving to France I would think the french would prefer I know their language
2 get a legit job paying taxes,most of the migrants here work for cash under table and don't pay tax,lets say that 10 people are drawing benefits from a system designed to support 5 people,sooner or later the money will run out,we need as many people paying in as we can get,it benefits us all
3 Please fly your native countrys flag BELOW ours
4 please vote,get informed ,know your canidates and vote,it's important
I can't think of anything else at the moment,those are pretty much the ones that irritate me
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm
by Progurt
The flags I fly alternate between
this one and
this one.
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:43 pm
by Vodkin
Star Trek isn't quite what I had in mind but whatever floats your boat ,as long if you decide to fly the stars and stripes with them they are below it I am ok with it,I'm kinda anal about the flag,must be from too much time spent at the VFW
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:27 am
by Xela
Vodkin wrote:...I'm kinda anal about the flag...
Just like to see the word "anal" and "flag" close to each other.
That is all.
Xela
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:49 am
by the comedian
Xela wrote:Vodkin wrote:...I'm kinda anal about the flag...
Just like to see the word "anal" and "flag" close to each other.
That is all.
Xela
Whoa, I just got a patriot chubby...
Re: Obama administration will not deport younger illegal ali
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:31 pm
by Cabrito
Zapp Brannigan wrote:I am glad. My mom was undocumented back in the 80s she had the fortune of marrying a guy from southern Texas; the lady has lived here for over 25 years and hasn't even gotten a traffic ticket that and she gave birth and raised two fairly productive children. I know and have met undocumented students and it is sad that these bright kids are stuck in limbo in terms of educational and career opportunities.
Marrying a citizen used to fly, but doesn't any longer. I have a god daughter who was brought here from Jalisco at the age of 6, she's now married to a citizen and still can't get naturalized or a green card. Has graduated elementary, high school and community college. She owns a house in L.A. Has held the same tax paying job for half a dozen years. Has been told she'll have to return to Mexico and apply and possibly wait five years for an answer. She's under 30, the new policy will most likely apply to her. While conflicted about the larger issue myself, I'm personally thrilled she's finally going to get a shot at a path to citizenship.
