Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 11:01 amI guess I'm the odd guy out in saying I'd like to see both of them held to their crimes, Biden and Trump.
I want Trump held to account for Jan 6, not some frivolous misdemeanor that we can just barely nudge into felony just for the sound byte. I want Hunter acquitted as drug use should not bar one from firearms, constitutionally (because drug use, in and of itself, is not violent and disqualifying). Therefore, I find both of these cases to be horseshit politics. I don't like either of the assholes involved and I am, personally, convinced each are guilty of all manner of things.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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And yet the two “crimes” these people are accused of are hardly comparable. One individual is facing charges that stem from a questionable legal standing affecting just his own constitutional right to bear arms. The other is a politician indicted on multiple charges including tax-evasion, lying to federal investigators, hiding state secrets he is prohibited from having, instigating treason against the U.S. all the while promoting violence against minorities and legal officals investigating his own personal crimes.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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Bisbee wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 2:26 pm And yet the two “crimes” these people are accused of are hardly comparable. One individual is facing charges that stem from a questionable legal standing affecting just his own constitutional right to bear arms. The other is a politician charged with tax-evasion, lying to federal investigators, hiding state documents he is prohibited from keeping, instigating treason against the U.S.while ceaselessly promoting violence against minorities and those investigating his crimes.
You're lumping "crimes" in with the actual charges of the Trump case. That's part of my point. Yes, Trump is the worst kind of person. No, that has no bearing on the actual 34 counts he was found guilty of that were a legal stretch to link together and then hurdle into the lowest of low felony charges so we could crow "we got him!" That is exactly why I want to see him tried for the serious stuff rather than piddlyshit.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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What they have in common is questionable politically motivated prosecutions. In the DE trial Hunter is charged with lying on the ATF 4473, he admitted to his drug addiction at the time in his autobiography. Heard a law professor this morning who said it's very rare for the feds to charge lying on the ATF form, only 10 to 20 a year nationally. And Hunter will be charged with failing to pay federal taxes in his California trial, even though he's now paid them with penalties. In Trump's NY case he was convicted on what were originally misdemeanors on which the statute of limitations had expired, but they were revived by the DA and made into felonies.

Our politically tinged "gotcha" system of justice at work.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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featureless wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 2:41 pm
Bisbee wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 2:26 pm And yet the two “crimes” these people are accused of are hardly comparable. One individual is facing charges that stem from a questionable legal standing affecting just his own constitutional right to bear arms. The other is a politician charged with tax-evasion, lying to federal investigators, hiding state documents he is prohibited from keeping, instigating treason against the U.S.while ceaselessly promoting violence against minorities and those investigating his crimes.
You're lumping "crimes" in with the actual charges of the Trump case. That's part of my point. Yes, Trump is the worst kind of person. No, that has no bearing on the actual 34 counts he was found guilty of that were a legal stretch to link together and then hurdle into the lowest of low felony charges so we could crow "we got him!" That is exactly why I want to see him tried for the serious stuff rather than piddlyshit.
Agree.
featureless wrote: I want Trump held to account for Jan 6, not some frivolous misdemeanor that we can just barely nudge into felony just for the sound bite. I want Hunter acquitted as drug use should not bar one from firearms, constitutionally (because drug use, in and of itself, is not violent and disqualifying). Therefore, I find both of these cases to be horseshit politics. I don't like either of the assholes involved and I am, personally, convinced each are guilty of all manner of things.
Agree as well. The sixth is definitely something I’d like to see trump charged with and hopefully found guilty, but that has nothing to do with the contorted felony convictions he received. Some of our fellow members here are acting out of emotion rather than impartial logic and analytical analysis of the cases and law.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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<< Here, according to prosecutors, the “another crime” is a New York State election-law violation, which in turn incorporates three separate “unlawful means”: federal campaign crimes, tax crimes, and falsification of still more documents. Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments. So much for the constitutional obligation to provide notice to the defendant of the accusations against him in advance of trial. (This, folks, is what indictments are for.) >>

This is a fair point, and a really good explanation of this, thanks for that. However...

<< So, to inflate the charges up to the lowest-level felony (Class E, on a scale of Class A through E) — and to electroshock them back to life within the longer felony statute of limitations — the DA alleged that the falsification of business records was committed “with intent to commit another crime.” >>

<< In these key respects, the charges against Trump aren’t just unusual. They’re bespoke, seemingly crafted individually for the former president and nobody else. >>

I would argue misdemeanors are often bumped up to felonies on weird technicalities, at least in New York, because this very thing happened to a friend of mine who did about five years for something that shouldn't even be a crime, and that he also didn't do.

For a variety of reasons (they were different reasons, but there were 'political' issues in my friend's case as well) he was less likely to get convicted for the misdemeanor, so it got bumped up to a Felony E in a very, very improbable way. And his lawyer made some mistakes and my friend is a terrible client and a terrible defendant, so off to prison he went, complete with nearly a year in and out of SHU, which is practically like solitary.

My issue is not that politics was part of both trials-- that shouldn't happen, and it's fair to get pissed off about that.

To me, what's more important is that Trump should be subject to the same legal system, warts and all, with all its problems, as any other citizen. Bisbee may have muddied the waters by including the laundry list of other revolting crimes Trump committed, but I think what Trump did in the hush money case was far more serious and a greater threat to public safety than what Hunter did. What Hunter actually did was more trivial, and less dangerous, than what Trump did.

Yes, Sikaz, I'd much rather see him prosecuted for the insurrection. This is weird and frustrating. I feel like we're back to Bill Clinton and stains on dresses and the meaning of the word "is" and all the other crackpot issues that came up in his impeachment. The fact that he's being prosecuted for THIS crime makes our whole country look pathetic, no doubt.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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SunRiseWest wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 12:29 am << Here, according to prosecutors, the “another crime” is a New York State election-law violation, which in turn incorporates three separate “unlawful means”: federal campaign crimes, tax crimes, and falsification of still more documents. Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments. So much for the constitutional obligation to provide notice to the defendant of the accusations against him in advance of trial. (This, folks, is what indictments are for.) >>

This is a fair point, and a really good explanation of this, thanks for that. However...

<< So, to inflate the charges up to the lowest-level felony (Class E, on a scale of Class A through E) — and to electroshock them back to life within the longer felony statute of limitations — the DA alleged that the falsification of business records was committed “with intent to commit another crime.” >>

<< In these key respects, the charges against Trump aren’t just unusual. They’re bespoke, seemingly crafted individually for the former president and nobody else. >>

I would argue misdemeanors are often bumped up to felonies on weird technicalities, at least in New York, because this very thing happened to a friend of mine who did about five years for something that shouldn't even be a crime, and that he also didn't do.

For a variety of reasons (they were different reasons, but there were 'political' issues in my friend's case as well) he was less likely to get convicted for the misdemeanor, so it got bumped up to a Felony E in a very, very improbable way. And his lawyer made some mistakes and my friend is a terrible client and a terrible defendant, so off to prison he went, complete with nearly a year in and out of SHU, which is practically like solitary.

My issue is not that politics was part of both trials-- that shouldn't happen, and it's fair to get pissed off about that.

To me, what's more important is that Trump should be subject to the same legal system, warts and all, with all its problems, as any other citizen. Bisbee may have muddied the waters by including the laundry list of other revolting crimes Trump committed, but I think what Trump did in the hush money case was far more serious and a greater threat to public safety than what Hunter did. What Hunter actually did was more trivial, and less dangerous, than what Trump did.

Yes, Sikaz, I'd much rather see him prosecuted for the insurrection. This is weird and frustrating. I feel like we're back to Bill Clinton and stains on dresses and the meaning of the word "is" and all the other crackpot issues that came up in his impeachment. The fact that he's being prosecuted for THIS crime makes our whole country look pathetic, no doubt.
Paying hush money isn't a crime. Michael Cohen was convicted in federal court of illegal campaign contributions for the pay off, but federal prosecutors declined to prosecute Trump on the same charge. But the NY County DA charged Trump with that same federal crime which is unheard of. CA state prosecutors don't charge people with violating federal laws and federal prosecutors don't charge people with violating state laws.

The statute of limitations had already expired on the falsifying business records crime, but Bragg's office resurrected it and wobbled it to a class E felony. That action looks like it was tailor made to get Trump, which is exactly how it's perceived by the public.

Is Trump guilty, I think he is but US DOJ should have charged Trump, not a state prosecutor who campaigned on pursuing Trump. Is Hunter Biden guilty of lying on the 4473 I think so, but DOJ should have gone through with the plea bargain which is how they handle most of those cases especially someone with no criminal record.

Federal and state prosecutors have what is called "prosecutorial discretion" to charge or not charge, political bias like racial bias, ethnic bias, sexual orientation bias shouldn't enter into charging decisions, but it does. Hope NY state appellate courts will right the problems in Trump's case and federal appellate courts if Hunter Biden is convicted.

Trump, Hunter Biden, Elon Musk and other politicians and billionaires should be charged with crimes that they commit, but decisions should be transparent and not tinged with bias. In Trumps case the NY governor should have appointed a special prosecutor to investigate and make charging decisions.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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SunRiseWest wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 12:29 am
To me, what's more important is that Trump should be subject to the same legal system, warts and all, with all its problems, as any other citizen. Bisbee may have muddied the waters by including the laundry list of other revolting crimes Trump committed, but I think what Trump did in the hush money case was far more serious and a greater threat to public safety than what Hunter did. What Hunter actually did was more trivial, and less dangerous, than what Trump did.

Yes, Sikaz, I'd much rather see him prosecuted for the insurrection. This is weird and frustrating. I feel like we're back to Bill Clinton and stains on dresses and the meaning of the word "is" and all the other crackpot issues that came up in his impeachment. The fact that he's being prosecuted for THIS crime makes our whole country look pathetic, no doubt.
Totally agree with your bolded point. But if it's almost never prosecuted and then warped to bring in Trump, that's not really how it's normally applied. So why do so here? Politics.

With Hunter's case, I agree it's bullshit. Totally. But he rather egregiously flaunted the law with his book and videos of crack use at the same time he said "no" on the form. Witch hunt, definitely. Also definitely guilty. My wish for Hunter is that it gets the drug question removed from the form and he gets off. But he definitely lied on the form.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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featureless wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:48 am
SunRiseWest wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 12:29 am
To me, what's more important is that Trump should be subject to the same legal system, warts and all, with all its problems, as any other citizen. Bisbee may have muddied the waters by including the laundry list of other revolting crimes Trump committed, but I think what Trump did in the hush money case was far more serious and a greater threat to public safety than what Hunter did. What Hunter actually did was more trivial, and less dangerous, than what Trump did.

Yes, Sikaz, I'd much rather see him prosecuted for the insurrection. This is weird and frustrating. I feel like we're back to Bill Clinton and stains on dresses and the meaning of the word "is" and all the other crackpot issues that came up in his impeachment. The fact that he's being prosecuted for THIS crime makes our whole country look pathetic, no doubt.
Totally agree with your bolded point. But if it's almost never prosecuted and then warped to bring in Trump, that's not really how it's normally applied. So why do so here? Politics.

With Hunter's case, I agree it's bullshit. Totally. But he rather egregiously flaunted the law with his book and videos of crack use at the same time he said "no" on the form. Witch hunt, definitely. Also definitely guilty. My wish for Hunter is that it gets the drug question removed from the form and he gets off. But he definitely lied on the form.
I totally agree. It’s time to remove the drug question. As far as gun use, the same should apply to drug use as alcohol use while carrying. Neither practice should restrict your ability or right to buy a gun. Of course if you show up drunk or high to buy a gun a seller should tell you to come back when you’re sober and not high.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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President Joe Biden expressed respect for both the judicial process and his son Hunter Biden after a Delaware jury found him guilty Tuesday on three counts of illegally possessing a gun amid his struggles with addiction nearly six years ago.

Hunter Biden, who has spoken about his problems with substance abuse at length, is now facing potential prison time following the verdict.

“As I said last week, I am the President, but I am also a Dad. Jill and I love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today,” President Biden said in a statement.

“So many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. As I also said last week, I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as Hunter considers an appeal,” he went on.

The president said last week that he would not consider using his presidential pardon power on his son. But so far he has not disclosed whether he has ruled out commuting the sentence, whatever it may be.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-bide ... c0ceed78db

More than we can say about TOS and his respect for anything besides himself.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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sikacz wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:45 pm
featureless wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:24 am Guilty on all 3 charges.
Not a huge surprise.
Yup, he admitted to his addiction during that period in his book. Three felonies so there goes his law license, if it hasn't been pulled already. Joe Biden is off to the G7 Conference in Fasano in Italy and won't return until next week.
https://www.lhw.com/hotel/BORGO-EGNAZIA ... sano-Italy

Hunter faces a second trial in CA for not paying his federal income taxes. I was listening to the radio when I was out and the MAGA crazies are all out after the Hunter verdict. The Demo crazies were out earlier in the morning. Crazy plus the heat makes them really loopy.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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featureless wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:04 pm It's a bullshit charge on Hunter, but he's definitely guilty. My issue is with the law. I hope he appeals on 2A grounds and results in drugs no longer be prohibitive. Best of luck to him. Addiction is a mother fucker. If he remains clean, he has my respect for that.
Totally agree, it's as bogus as Trump's charges in NY. Hunter's California charges are also bogus, he paid the taxes with penalties, most aren't charged. Addictions concerning drugs, food, cigarettes...are a bear to overcome.

Joe Biden has said he won't pardon his son, but if he's not reelected he could pardon him in January 2025 before he leaves the White House. Or if Biden is reelected, sometime in his second term, he'll never face voters again.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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Trump's and Hunter Biden's cases aren't the same and a number of people on the right don't even think that Hunter should have been charged. There are 2A issues in the Hunter case and the Rahimi vs USA and US vs Daniels cases at SCOTUS could end up helping him.

And there are some on the right who think that the US Atty should have gone after the Biden "crime family", a conspiracy theory that the Bidens are like a mafia family that needs to be prosecuted. Like the Trump "crime family" conspiracies that the other side promotes.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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highdesert wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm
And there are some on the right who think that the US Atty should have gone after the Biden "crime family", a conspiracy theory that the Bidens are like a mafia family that needs to be prosecuted. Like the Trump "crime family" conspiracies that the other side promotes.
I would like to know what's on that laptop. Transparency should be a thing. That story was totally squashed in 2020, though. Then it pops up as evidence at Hunter's trial, contents (whatever they may be) verified original (not Russian disinformation) by the FBI. Oh well. Got to have them secrets to keep the conspiracies alive and well.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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Reporting says Biden may commune Hunter's sentence. I really hope he does not as it would be quite fucked up of him to do so. Better, we remove the drug restriction as it is not constitutional, then Hunter and anyone else sitting in jail for lying on the form should be pardoned. It's a bullshit crime. But until it's removed, the president's son shouldn't get a special pass. Now if Biden communes all the sentences, I'd cheat him on.

Re: Jury selection started in Hunter Biden's federal firearms case.

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Incarceration presents problems with Secret Service protection for Hunter Biden, just like for Trump. Apparently Hunter has no criminal record, so maybe house arrest or extended probation will be the sentence. I agree, I think Joe Biden should stay out of it until after the November election, after that time he'll never again be running for public office.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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