Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Remember the recent case of the Little Rock airport manager who had a side business selling guns, that's what this is intended for, not the occasionally seller. Giving or willing your firearms to nieces isn't selling them. Mine will likely go to nephews.
Section 12002 of the BSCA broadened the definition of “engaged in the business” under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(C) by eliminating the requirement that a person’s “principal objective” of purchasing and reselling firearms must include both “livelihood and profit” and replacing it with a requirement that the person must intend “to predominantly earn a profit.”
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... s/download
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Look at this way, when you sell a car you transfer the title, same when you sell a house or land property. There is no reason why when you sell a gun it is not the same. Consider it protection for you. Say you sold a gun to a person and then a major crime was committed with that gun. Say the serial number was traced back to the FFL that sold the gun to you and then the police come to you and say you own the gun. You can then say nope I sold it to so and so and here is the paperwork that shows that. Why not make gun sales traceable, unless you have something to hide?

As for the idea that the Government is going to take our guns is BS. First off there are too many guns out there to be taken. Second many don't have serial numbers because they were made before 1968. My Marlin M1-99 22LR carbine is a prime example. Other are war souvenirs form our various conflicts. I know of three an M3 Grease Gun and M16 that an agent brought back from Vietnam. Also my dad's S&W 38 that was British lend lease and won in a poker game in Italy during WWII. How many more guns are like those examples?

Just my thoughts on this.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:22 am
As for the idea that the Government is going to take our guns is BS. First off there are too many guns out there to be taken. Second many don't have serial numbers because they were made before 1968. My Marlin M1-99 22LR carbine is a prime example. Other are war souvenirs form our various conflicts. I know of three an M3 Grease Gun and M16 that an agent brought back from Vietnam. Also my dad's S&W 38 that was British lend lease and won in a poker game in Italy during WWII. How many more guns are like those examples?

Just my thoughts on this.
It's not so much them "taking" the guns as in "coming to the door and confiscating them" as it is making so many hoops to navigate and so many restrictions and so many criminal penalties for possession that only the very rich or criminals can afford to have them. Illinois is a nightmare of convoluted laws and restrictions and breaking these commandments carries heavy fines and jail time. it's infringement and it is unconstitutional and designed to make having a firearm so tedious and difficult that folks give up. And I believe it will go Federal.

VooDoo
Last edited by VodoundaVinci on Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Good thoughts TT. The buyer and seller could also go to a notary public, a notary is used in selling a house. The powers of a notary public are defined in state law. I too don't see confiscation as a reality throughout the US, but in blue states that have gun registration, the state knows where the guns are or are supposed to be which makes rounding them up easier.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:38 am Good thoughts TT. The buyer and seller could also go to a notary public, a notary is used in selling a house. The powers of a notary public are defined in state law. I too don't see confiscation as a reality throughout the US, but in blue states that have gun registration, the state knows where the guns are or are supposed to be which makes rounding them up easier.
But in those Blue States, how many guns are never registered? Does a family register grandpa’s gun he brought back from WWII or the pistol that Mom has for home defense for the last twenty years.? No they don’t register them, mainly because they don’t think about them. They have more important things to think about like today’s dinner or is a kid to sick to go to school?

When we see the stats on how many guns are in the hands of the population in the US, they are just pissing in the wind.Because nobody really knows even a rough count of how many guns there are in the US.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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I'm still trying to figure out how people are supposedly buying guns on the Internet and they get delivered without a background check. I have bought a lot of guns online - dozens over the last few years. Not a single person I bought from would ship it anywhere other than an FFL holder that background checked me before I could take possession of the firearm. I'm sure there are folks out there send a seller a check and the seller manages to bypass shipping protocol (lies about what's in the box) and there is no BGC or paper trail. But it's not gonna be significant.

I don't have a problem with BGC's but this isn't going to save the number of lives it's proponents are claiming it will. And when it doesn't work, and it won't. they'll want to expand another law. They'll want more regulation.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:02 pm I'm still trying to figure out how people are supposedly buying guns on the Internet and they get delivered without a background check. I have bought a lot of guns online - dozens over the last few years. Not a single person I bought from would ship it anywhere other than an FFL holder that background checked me before I could take possession of the firearm. I'm sure there are folks out there send a seller a check and the seller manages to bypass shipping protocol (lies about what's in the box) and there is no BGC or paper trail. But it's not gonna be significant.

I don't have a problem with BGC's but this isn't going to save the number of lives it's proponents are claiming it will. And when it doesn't work, and it won't. they'll want to expand another law. They'll want more regulation.

VooDoo
I agree. All my internet gun buys have gone through an FFL. For any across state lines purchase it’s automatic FFL. The reality is they are addressing an extremely small number of cases with maximum media propaganda exposure. On a side note, if biden’s ATF gets litigated out of this it could through parts of it out. It could very well be SCOTUS would tell the dems to pass a bill and sign it into law. Or the next republican president will instruct his ATF to scrap it. In any case, I really don’t see this as doing much or it correcting some huge problem. Those that support this and say it doing something post the evidence to show how big of a problem this is. We already know the gun related violence death statistics are relatively small with over half as suicides. This is likely addressing an extremely small number of instances relating to deaths. It’s more likely part of a larger incremental tightening that the dems hope will lead to gun registration. Also their ultimate ban aspirations. Make it harder and more expensive to own firearms and burdensome regulations that make it less likely the most vulnerable with the least means will be able to own firearms. I see the logic of some of these in societies where self defense by arms is not allowed, but really not in a society like ours where self defense by arms is noted in the bill of rights. Self defense requires flexibility in all aspects including means of storage and access.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:07 pm
highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:38 am Good thoughts TT. The buyer and seller could also go to a notary public, a notary is used in selling a house. The powers of a notary public are defined in state law. I too don't see confiscation as a reality throughout the US, but in blue states that have gun registration, the state knows where the guns are or are supposed to be which makes rounding them up easier.
But in those Blue States, how many guns are never registered? Does a family register grandpa’s gun he brought back from WWII or the pistol that Mom has for home defense for the last twenty years.? No they don’t register them, mainly because they don’t think about them. They have more important things to think about like today’s dinner or is a kid to sick to go to school?

When we see the stats on how many guns are in the hands of the population in the US, they are just pissing in the wind.Because nobody really knows even a rough count of how many guns there are in the US.
What is this "registered" of which you speak??? I have owned dozens of firearms and not one has ever been registered. The only State I know of that has a gun registry is Illinois and that only includes "assault weapons" that were possessed prior to the PICA law being enacted. I look for it to go Federal if Biden is re elected but as of right now I don't know of any "gun registry" outside of the one ATC is reverse engineering. What did I miss?

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:27 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:07 pm
highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:38 am Good thoughts TT. The buyer and seller could also go to a notary public, a notary is used in selling a house. The powers of a notary public are defined in state law. I too don't see confiscation as a reality throughout the US, but in blue states that have gun registration, the state knows where the guns are or are supposed to be which makes rounding them up easier.
But in those Blue States, how many guns are never registered? Does a family register grandpa’s gun he brought back from WWII or the pistol that Mom has for home defense for the last twenty years.? No they don’t register them, mainly because they don’t think about them. They have more important things to think about like today’s dinner or is a kid to sick to go to school?

When we see the stats on how many guns are in the hands of the population in the US, they are just pissing in the wind.Because nobody really knows even a rough count of how many guns there are in the US.
What is this "registered" of which you speak??? I have owned dozens of firearms and not one has ever been registered. The only State I know of that has a gun registry is Illinois and that only includes "assault weapons" that were possessed prior to the PICA law being enacted. I look for it to go Federal if Biden is re elected but as of right now I don't know of any "gun registry" outside of the one ATC is reverse engineering. What did I miss?

VooDoo
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"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:27 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:07 pm
highdesert wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:38 am Good thoughts TT. The buyer and seller could also go to a notary public, a notary is used in selling a house. The powers of a notary public are defined in state law. I too don't see confiscation as a reality throughout the US, but in blue states that have gun registration, the state knows where the guns are or are supposed to be which makes rounding them up easier.
But in those Blue States, how many guns are never registered? Does a family register grandpa’s gun he brought back from WWII or the pistol that Mom has for home defense for the last twenty years.? No they don’t register them, mainly because they don’t think about them. They have more important things to think about like today’s dinner or is a kid to sick to go to school?

When we see the stats on how many guns are in the hands of the population in the US, they are just pissing in the wind.Because nobody really knows even a rough count of how many guns there are in the US.
What is this "registered" of which you speak??? I have owned dozens of firearms and not one has ever been registered. The only State I know of that has a gun registry is Illinois and that only includes "assault weapons" that were possessed prior to the PICA law being enacted. I look for it to go Federal if Biden is re elected but as of right now I don't know of any "gun registry" outside of the one ATC is reverse engineering. What did I miss?

VooDoo

Law enforcement in California, local, state and even federal LEOs have access to the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System or CLETS containing the CA Justice Information System and 11 databases.
CJIS includes the following eleven (11) systems:
1. Stolen Vehicle System (SVS)
2. Automated Boat System (ABS)
3. Wanted Persons System (WPS)
4. Automated Firearms System (AFS)
5. Automated Property System (APS)
6. Domestic Violence Restraining Order System (DVROS)
7. Missing Persons System (MPS)*
8. Unidentified Persons System (UPS)*
9. Sex and Arson Registration File (SAR)
10. Supervised Release File (SRF)
11. Criminal History System (CHS)
https://www.csusb.edu/sites/default/fil ... er%203.pdf

The CA AG says to keep your personal info updated in the Automated Firearms System, otherwise you won't be able to purchase ammo in CA. Background checks are done every time ammo is purchased.

If you move to CA with guns, you have so many days to register them with the state. All sales must go through an FFL and that info goes into CJIS.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/afspi
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:37 am Any other States have gun registries that we know of? Or are Illinois and California unique?

VooDoo
A very limited range of weapons must be registered under the National Firearms Act of 1934, but federal law does not provide for comprehensive gun registration. Most states also do not require registration of firearms, and some states have enacted laws prohibiting registration. Only Hawaii and the District of Columbia require all firearms to be registered. California has created the equivalent of a registration system by requiring licensed dealers to process all gun transfers, while providing that law enforcement will maintain records of the transfers. The handgun licensing law in New York requires registration. California requires new residents to report [any] firearms, while Maryland requires new residents to report handguns and assault weapons.

California, Hawaii, New York, and a few other states have created a specific registration system for assault weapons and other especially dangerous firearms that are currently banned in those states. This is because the ban provides an exception for weapons that were owned before the ban and are registered.
https://www.justia.com/constitutional-l ... gistration
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 3:24 pm Thank You!

VooDoo

De Nada

Michigan requires a license to purchase a pistol and that info goes into a state database and Connecticut and New Jersey require registration of AWs.

More states prohibit gun registration by law: Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota and Vermont.

Some states require a permit or license to even purchase a firearm, so they have a record somewhere that the individual has or had firearms. Like Illinois' FOID.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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