Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2178
Only a few "pool reporters" are allowed in the courtroom and they send info to reporters in another room who are watching the trial on big screens. I read the same thing about Trump sleeping on BBC. Maggie Haberman doesn't work for Newsweek, she's a reporter for the New York Times.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Wino wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:25 pm Tub of orange shit should sleep nights instead of posting lies and nonsense on truth social all friggin' night long.
Kinda shows how much he's worried or even concerned about all this. Anyone who can sleep while they are being tried is pathological in my book.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Sorry, but that's a myth. Both parties were bitterly divided between liberal and reactionary. The Northern FDR Democrats and the racist segregationists in the South ONLY agreed, mostly, on foreign policy and non-racial issues. JFK picked LBJ as his VP and went to Dallas to try to get some kind of unity--and was killed doing it.
Ironically, Southern Republicans in strongly Dixiecrat states were liberal and in favor of integration. Mitch McConnell was PROUD to have attended the 1963 March on Washington. King was a registered Republican.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were just as divided with the descendants of the Robert Taft / Calvin Coolidge virtual reactionaries--The most extreme were the John Birchers. They were mostly supporters of the rust belt corporations as the GOP had been pro-corporations and not agrarian since its founding. Yet there were Northern liberals as well like Jacob Javits. In the 1950s and 1960s growing up in New York we had a "liberal" Republican governor, Nelson Rockefeller, and 2 Republican senators, Javits and Keating. Javits was Liberal, Keating was not. RFK replaced him in 1965. Rockefeller appointed a VERY liberal Republican, Charles Goodell. In a 3-way race in 1970 between Goodell, Richard Ottinger (D) and James Buckley (C) Wm F's brother, the Liberal vote was split and Buckley was elected.

Of course, the path was laid for the South to go Republican when the racists were furious that their Southern President, LBJ, betrayed by passing the Civil Riights Act of 1964. While LBJ easily won re-election in a massive landslide, Barry Goldwater planted the seeds for the racists to switch parties. Back then, future Supreme Court Justice, the imposing Wm Rehnquist was busy attempting to intimidate minority voters to keep them from voting in Arizona that year.

Finally, in 1968 the split turned into a chasm, as Wallace, like Thurmond before him, pulled Dixiecrat votes away from Minnesotan Humphrey, and Nixon's code-speak dog-whistle "Law and Order" helped finally break the Solid South.

Yet an essential civility remained in cross party relations until an Obama SOTU address when one rethug congressman interrupted with "You LIe!"

My point is that the parties were internally bitterly divided in the 1950's not at all idyllic.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:28 am
Wino wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:25 pm Tub of orange shit should sleep nights instead of posting lies and nonsense on truth social all friggin' night long.
Kinda shows how much he's worried or even concerned about all this. Anyone who can sleep while they are being tried is pathological in my book.

VooDoo
Could be. I think the fat fuck is in for a big surprise and yuge wake up call. I expect he will be found guilty, rightfully so.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Maybe his sleep patterns are different due to an underlying condition called Sundowners syndrome. This can be an early sign of dementia that increases as the dementia develops.
Common symptoms of sundowning include:
Confusion
Agitation
Anxiety
Difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep
Hallucinations
Pacing or wandering
Disorientation
https://www.forbes.com/health/conditio ... -syndrome/

Also seems he and his MAGAt supporters are complaining that he is being treated as a common criminal.
Former President Donald Trump and his allies raged after jury selection began Monday in his trial over a hush money payment made to an adult film star, sharing broad claims that he was being mistreated by being subject to the same rules as every standard criminal defendant before him.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-h ... e522dbc917

Personally I’d like to see shackles and an orange jumpsuit for him in court as other felons, have had to wear in court.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:39 pm
Also seems he and his MAGAt supporters are complaining that he is being treated as a common criminal.
Former President Donald Trump and his allies raged after jury selection began Monday in his trial over a hush money payment made to an adult film star, sharing broad claims that he was being mistreated by being subject to the same rules as every standard criminal defendant before him.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-h ... e522dbc917

Personally I’d like to see shackles and an orange jumpsuit for him in court as other felons, have had to wear in court.
But, but, but he *IS* a common criminal! And he should be treated as such (but he's not) and be locked up. But he's not.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Yesterday while people were obsessing on Trump's NYC criminal trial, an important appeal was being argued before SCOTUS.
The Supreme Court cast doubt Tuesday on the legality of obstruction charges lodged against some 300 rioters arrested for breaking into the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The court’s conservatives questioned whether the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which was aimed at corporate accounting fraud, can be used more broadly to prosecute those who obstruct “any official proceeding,” including Congress’ 2021 certification of President Biden’s election victory. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Neil M. Gorsuch noted that the law made it a crime to destroy or conceal documents to impair an “official proceeding,” but they voiced doubt over extending it to any disruptions of a proceeding. “Would a sit-in that disrupts a trial qualify?” Gorsuch asked. “Would a heckler in today’s audience qualify? Would pulling a fire alarm before a vote qualify for 20 years in prison?” While the court’s three liberals appeared to agree with prosecutors that law can be read broadly, the six conservatives sounded skeptical. A ruling that limits the obstruction law could also undercut the prosecution of former President Trump. Two of the four criminal charges against him are based on the obstruction law. Special counsel Jack Smith, however, has said the charges against Trump rest on stronger grounds because Trump allegedly schemed to submit false slates of electors to Congress.

Trump’s case did not figure in Tuesday’s argument. Next week, justices will hear Trump’s claim that he is immune from criminal charges that arose from his “official acts” as president. The court’s ruling in Fischer vs. United States could also deal a blow to other Jan. 6 prosecutions, though it would not prevent the punishing of those who broke into the Capitol on the day Congress was due to certify President Biden’s victory in the 2020 election. More than 1,200 of the rioters were arrested for their actions. Most were charged with assaulting the police officers who were on duty or with disorderly and disruptive conduct. Some were also charged with carrying dangerous or deadly weapons. The FBI delved into the backgrounds and motives of those who came to the Capitol. Based on those investigations, about 330 of the rioters were also charged with seeking to obstruct an official proceeding. One of those was Joseph Fischer, an off-duty Pennsylvania police officer, who said on social media that he expected the attack on the Capitol “might get violent” but that it was needed “to send a message that we the people hold the real power.” When Fischer was arrested, he was charged with six counts of assault and disruption as well as a seventh charge of obstruction, a felony charge which could send him to prison for several years.

A federal judge rejected the obstruction charge in his case, but the U.S. Court of Appeals restored it in a 2-1 decision. The Supreme Court agreed to hear his appeal. Most of the justices describe themselves as “textualists” who decide cases based on the words of the laws. But in this case, like many others, the words can be read differently. The Sarbanes-Oxley law was adopted after the collapse of energy firm Enron in an accounting scandal that also took down the Arthur Andersen accounting firm. Congress wanted to make clear that shredding documents could be prosecuted as a crime. At issue was how to interpret two clauses in the law. It says it’s a crime if someone “corruptly alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so.”

U.S. Solicitor Gen. Elizabeth Prelogar said the prosecutions rely on a “straightforward application” of the law as written. “A violent mob stormed the United States Capitol and disrupted the peaceful transition of power,” she said. “In plain English, the fundamental wrong committed by many of the rioters, including [Fischer], was a deliberate attempt to stop the joint session of Congress from certifying the results of the election. That is, they obstructed Congress’s work in that official proceeding.” But she had barely finished her opening before the chief justice said he saw it differently. Roberts said the justices have often said that the words of the law are read based on the full text. “The general phrase is controlled and defined by reference to the terms that precede it,” he told her. That means the law is about concealing documents and records. “You can’t look at it as if it’s standing alone” as a general provision applying to disruptions of official proceedings, he said. The court’s conservatives have often taken a skeptical view of prosecutions that rely on a broad reading of a criminal statute. Justice Clarence Thomas, who was back on the bench after a one-day absence, pressed Prelogar on whether the government had used the law against other “violent protests.” “There have been many violent protests that interfered with proceedings,” he said. “Has the government applied this provision to other protests in the past?” Prelogar said she did not have a ready example of “enforcing it in a situation where people have violently stormed a building in order to prevent an official proceeding. That’s because I’m not aware of that circumstance ever happening prior to Jan. 6,” she said.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ ... -6-rioters

If obstruction charges are overturned, 300 insurrectionists would have to be resentenced. That was the risk that DOJ took in using the Sarbanes-Oxley law.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Seems using wrong laws and principles to base decisions on is a habit. Just like in Roe v Wade, an overreach and interpretation error. Well, that’ll be fun. Those three hundred will be seen as political martyrs and heroes when released. Dems can’t seem to do anything right.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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sikacz wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:34 am Seems using wrong laws and principles to base decisions on is a habit. Just like in Roe v Wade, an overreach and interpretation error. Well, that’ll be fun. Those three hundred will be seen as political martyrs and heroes when released. Dems can’t seem to do anything right.
Agree, prosecutors were pushing for heavier sentences so they used an untested federal law. US DOJ and the US Atty for DC only have themselves to blame if 300 plus cases have to go back to court. It's a major fuck up.
Obstruction of justice is the frustration of governmental purposes by violence, corruption, destruction of evidence, or deceit. It is a federal crime. In fact, it is several crimes. Obstruction prosecutions regularly involve charges under several statutory provisions. Federal obstruction of justice laws are legion; too many for even passing reference to all of them in a single report.

The general obstruction of justice provisions are six: 18 U.S.C. 1512 (tampering with federal witnesses), 1513 (retaliating against federal witnesses), 1503 (obstruction of pending federal court proceedings), 1505 (obstruction of pending congressional or federal administrative proceedings), 371 (conspiracy), and contempt. Other than Section 1503, each prohibits obstruction of certain congressional activities. In addition to these, there are a host of other statutes that penalize obstruction by violence, corruption, destruction of evidence, or deceit.

Moreover, regardless of the offense for which an individual is convicted, his sentence may be enhanced as a consequence of any obstruction of justice for which he is responsible, if committed during the course of the investigation, prosecution, or sentencing for the offense of his conviction. The enhancement may result in an increase in his term of imprisonment by as much as four years.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product ... errorism).
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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No former US president has been convicted of a crime, Trump would be the first. I expect we'll see a lot more indictments of former presidents of both parties in the future.

Nixon was "an unindicted co-conspirator", Clinton lied to a grand jury, FDR's incarcerating Japanese-Americans, the Harding administration was full of scandals that he likely benefited from, Lincoln took a lot of actions that were illegal...
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:16 pm No former US president has been convicted of a crime, Trump would be the first. I expect we'll see a lot more indictments of former presidents of both parties in the future.

Nixon was "an unindicted co-conspirator", Clinton lied to a grand jury, FDR's incarcerating Japanese-Americans, the Harding administration was full of scandals that he likely benefited from, Lincoln took a lot of actions that were illegal...
Both Pierce and Grant were arrested, Pierce for running over a woman on his horse, and Grant, twice, for speeding in his carriage. Both were President at the time. Pierce's case was settled out of court, and Grant paid a $20 bond. If he used a gold double eagle, the gold alone would, today be worth around $2,200.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:16 pm No former US president has been convicted of a crime, Trump would be the first. I expect we'll see a lot more indictments of former presidents of both parties in the future.

Nixon was "an unindicted co-conspirator", Clinton lied to a grand jury, FDR's incarcerating Japanese-Americans, the Harding administration was full of scandals that he likely benefited from, Lincoln took a lot of actions that were illegal...
Turd is an anomaly. Any future presidents that are indicted for nothing crimes or frivolous reasons will just be attempted political hack jobs regardless of party affiliation. We've never had an honest to goodness true mobster/criminal as president until turd came along. I hope that it ends with him. Again, turd elected as president is the most frightful error this nation has ever made in it's entire history.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Trump's latest social media slip is a 'very very clear violation' of his gag order

Donald Trump may have violated his gag order set by the New York judge in his criminal hush money trial by parroting a Fox New host's attack against potential jurors being seated in the case, according to a legal expert.

On Wednesday, during a pause in proceedings where Trump is defending himself against a 34-count indictment that he falsified business records to bury alleged sexual affairs weeks before the 2016 election, the former president quoted Fox News host Jesse Watters stating: “They are catching undercover Liberal Activists lying to the Judge in order to get on the Trump Jury."

For NYU professor and general counsel of the Department of Defense Ryan Goodman, this was a huge no-no. "It is a very, very clear violation of the gag order," he told CNN's Erin Burnett on her show "Out Front." "The gag order's last provision says that Trump cannot make public statements about any prospective juror or any juror. Full stop."

He continued: "It's not about his intent. It's not about making statements about jurors in order to interfere with a criminal proceeding, which is part of the gag order — he just cannot make public statements about them. He just did."

The gag order was initially imposed on defendant Trump by New York Judge Juan Merchan to insulate witnesses, court staff, and jurors. But after Trump started a social media barrage against Merchan's political consultant daughter who did work for various Democratic candidates, he expanded the gag order terms to include family members of both the prosecutors and the judge.

So Trump must "refrain" from "making or directing others to make public statements about any prospective juror or any juror in the is criminal proceedings," according to the document.
An April 23 hearing date was scheduled after Bragg's team requested Trump be held in contempt for violating the gag order three times before the most recent Truth Social post.

"This is going to come out next week," Goodman said, adding that Trump could be threatened with contempt and even jail time "if he continues to do this."
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-clear-v ... gag-order/

Bless his heart! The dummy can’t quit flapping his lips, even when it going to hurt him.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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For the Ever Trumpers, nothing will cement their support for him more than Trump going to jail for "telling the truth" and fighting the system by blabbering on and on and on. He's their hero for not shutting it when told to shut it. Find him in contempt and put him in the pokey for a month. I'd love to see it but it'll only make his supporters see him as a martyr.

Gaad help US. We certainly don't seem to be able to help ourselves.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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