Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:48 am
wings wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:12 pm Oh yes. The incident with the Rohm RG-14 double-action .22LR revolver. A classic example of the modern polymer handgun and the danger it poses to society.

Telling you, .22LR ain't no slouch. If Hinckley had any training, HW might've started his presidency a few years early.
Yes,
The RG-14 Revolver: The Gun that Got the Gipper
https://www.recoilweb.com/the-rg-14-rev ... 72810.html
I read that article. I don't consider myself to have refined tastes in firearms, but what a piece of crap. No ejector rod on the Rohm 22lr. You unscrew a rod that lets you remove the cylinder then you manually pick out each case, replace with cartridges, replace cylinder, and screw rod back in to hold cylinder. Makes my single action reloading look efficient.

Funny, the article refers to 38spc as a mouse gun caliber -- I take exception!

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Here we go.

Today the White House announced the DOJ is taking action on the earlier Executive Order, enabled by the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act of 2022, by submitting its proposed rule redefining who is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ous-hands/
Today, the Justice Department has announced a proposed rule to specify what exactly the new definition in the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act means on the ground.
This should turn up in the Federal Register.

At the end of the fact sheet, Biden calls for banning all the things, per The Party platform.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Yawn....
Specifically, the proposed rule, if finalized, would clarify that an individual would be presumed to be “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms—and therefore be required to become a licensed firearms dealer and run background checks—if they meet certain conditions. For example, under the proposed rule, a person would be presumed to be required to become a licensed dealer and run background checks if they meet one or more of the following criteria:

Offer for sale any number of firearms and also represents to potential buyers that they are willing and able to purchase and sell them additional firearms;
Repetitively offer for sale firearms within 30 days after they were purchased;
Repetitively offer for sale firearms that are like new in their original packaging;
Repetitively offer for sale multiple firearms of the same make and model; or
As a formerly federally-licensed firearms dealer, sell firearms that were in the business inventory and not transferred to a personal collection at least a year before the sale, addressing the so-called “fire sale loophole.”
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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This is the Executive Order Biden signed in March:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ties-safer

This is a Q&A that AK senator Lisa Murkowski's office prepared on the Safer Communities Act. Murkowski voted for it along with 10 other Republican US senators.
https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/press/ ... nities-act

I expect that Biden's EO and ATF's eventual regs will end up in a federal court.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote:This is the Executive Order Biden signed in March:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ties-safer

This is a Q&A that AK senator Lisa Murkowski's office prepared on the Safer Communities Act. Murkowski voted for it along with 10 other Republican US senators.
https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/press/ ... nities-act

I expect that Biden's EO and ATF's eventual regs will end up in a federal court.
The cases will take years, so it's already a win for those in favor of Biden's stated intent "to move as close to universal background checks as possible within existing law."
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
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13ʞ
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(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Definition of “Engaged in the Business” as a Dealer in Firearms
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/definition ... ovdelivery

Proposed rule (regulation):
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... s/download


The Biden administration on Thursday proposed a rule intended to require people selling firearms at gun shows and on the internet to conduct background checks on potential buyers, in an effort to curb the so-called gun show loophole. The proposal comes a little more than a year after President Joe Biden signed into law the first major federal gun safety legislation passed in decades, which, among other things, expanded which sellers are required to run background checks before making a sale.

Under the new rule unveiled by the Justice Department, some private sellers may no longer fall within the background check exception, with the department saying the guidance “identifies examples of conduct that would, in certain circumstances, be presumed to qualify as engaging in the business of dealing in firearms and thus to require a federal firearms license,” which would mean the seller must run background checks ahead of sales. “An increasing number of individuals engaged in the business of selling firearms for profit have chosen not to register as federal firearms licensees, as required by law,” Steven Dettelbach, the director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said in a statement.

“Instead, they have sought to make money through the off-book, illicit sale of firearms. These activities undermine the law, endanger public safety, create significant burdens on law enforcement, and are unfair to the many licensed dealers who make considerable efforts to follow the law,” he said. The Justice Department said in a release that the proposed rule also adds a definition of “personal firearms collection,” exempting from the background check requirement “genuine hobbyists and collectors” who may want to “enhance and liquidate their collections without fear of violating the law.” The gun-violence prevention group Brady said in a statement that the proposed rule closes “a massive loophole in our life-saving background checks system.”

“It is past time to ensure that anyone who sells firearms for profits is required to be licensed and that their sales of firearms are subject to a Brady Background Check,” said Kris Brown, Brady’s president. While Vice President Kamala Harris applauded the proposed rule, she called on lawmakers to take further steps to reduce gun violence. “Congress must pass legislation to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, require safe gun storage, end immunity from liability for gun manufacturers, and require background checks on all gun sales—even those by gun dealers who are not registered,” she said in a statement Thursday.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/31/politics ... index.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Having read this proposed rule a few times, as it relates to the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) of 2022, it would appear a bill of sale could be a detriment to one who sells a firearm privately. If you do not have a bill of sale, though, presumably, it could become an issue with the IRS if the government so desired. A record of the original purchase price or receipt would seem to be a factor as well. Ultimately, this could come down to which agency you want to shoot your dog.

ETA: https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... n-firearms

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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At least this time ATF isn't proposing a rule based on thin air, they're saying it's based on the Bipartisan Safer Communities Ac, so it's up to federal courts to determine if ATF has the authority. And the AGs contend it's in conflict with the Gun Control Act, courts resolve conflict between laws. ATF has closed the comment period, I expect draft lawsuits are just waiting for ATF to issue the final rule and the legal battle starts.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice- ... rms-dealer
The Justice Department today announced it has submitted to the Federal Register the “Engaged in the Business” Final Rule, which makes clear the circumstances in which a person is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms and thus required to obtain a federal firearms license, in order to increase compliance with the federal background check requirement for firearm sales by federal firearms licensees.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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White House press statement on the rule:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... gun-crime/
  • Prevents people from evading the licensing and background check requirements by claiming that they are just selling a few guns. The final rule clarifies that even a single firearm transaction may be sufficient to require a license, if there is other behavior to suggest commercial activity. For example, a person selling just one gun and then saying to others they are willing and able to purchase more firearms for resale may be required to obtain a license and run background checks.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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It's why I only sell any firearms I liquidate on consignment thru a local FFL - No face to face or internet deals. There is all the right paperwork, background checks, 4473's etc and I get all the documentation. I resent Biden and Co. trying to make it out like anyone who buys a gun and then sells it a year later "LNIB" with all the accessories and locks, case etc. is doing something shady.

My Wife and I did this back when concealed carry was forced on Illinois - We had no idea what would work best so we bought guns. shot them and trained with them, and the ones that worked out we bought holsters and extra mags etc. for. The ones that didn't work out went LNIB to good homes. Literally, someone got a Glock 26 LNIB for $100 less than I paid for it. And Glock 43, and Glock 42, and Kel-Tec P32, and lots of guns went to the FFL I had them shipped to and *all* had the correct and legal paperwork done. Now they wanna portray that as if something shady or illegal is going on.

It's no different than being a field service tech and buying diagnostic meters and such and selling the ones that don't work out.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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“Under this regulation, it will not matter if guns are sold on the internet, at a gun show, or at a brick-and-mortar store: if you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you must be licensed, and you must conduct background checks,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “This regulation is a historic step in the Justice Department’s fight against gun violence. It will save lives.”
The Final Rule goes into effect 30 days after the date of publication in the Federal Register. [April 11, 2024]
https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/justice-dep ... 20Garland.

Final Rule
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... s/download

Biden has paid the Bloomie groups for their campaign support. I expect 2A rights groups are already preparing court challenges and are going judge shopping. A national injunction from a district court anywhere would stop the order until a federal circuit court could consider stay and ruling.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:56 am
“Under this regulation, it will not matter if guns are sold on the internet, at a gun show, or at a brick-and-mortar store: if you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you must be licensed, and you must conduct background checks,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “This regulation is a historic step in the Justice Department’s fight against gun violence. It will save lives.”
The Final Rule goes into effect 30 days after the date of publication in the Federal Register. [April 11, 2024]
https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/justice-dep ... 20Garland.

Final Rule
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... s/download

Biden has paid the Bloomie groups for their campaign support. I expect 2A rights groups are already preparing court challenges and are going judge shopping. A national injunction from a district court anywhere would stop the order until a federal circuit court could consider stay and ruling.
If you don’t sell for profit does this change the private sale type transactions that are allowed in some states? I started another thread, because I couldn’t find this one. I had a conversation with a friend while driving to the range and he mentioned there was a new law coming into or already in effect. I was a bit puzzled. I had a vague idea it might actually have been this. I’m not sure this tinkering by biden and the ATF does anything concretely positive. What existing huge problem is this addressing and what are the statistics that prove it exists?
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