Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

6
featureless wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:47 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:44 pm The 2nd includes knives? Thats a new one to me. But OK.
Bearable arms. Also includes armor, swords, bows, etc. Some would extend that to warships, planes, etc. I think it needs to be bearable, not crew served. But there are arguments both ways.
Never seen that "bearable" word in 2A.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

7
tonguengroover wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:50 pm
featureless wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:47 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:44 pm The 2nd includes knives? Thats a new one to me. But OK.
Bearable arms. Also includes armor, swords, bows, etc. Some would extend that to warships, planes, etc. I think it needs to be bearable, not crew served. But there are arguments both ways.
Never seen that "bearable" word in 2A.
Exactly why some believe it includes crew served arms.

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

10
From the Heller decision.
Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communication . . . and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search . . . the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.
[https://constitution.congress.gov/brows ... unding.%20).][/url]

As featureless said, there is debate about what other arms are included in the 2A.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

13
DougB1946 wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:44 am Note: You can own a tank. There are businesses that rent out tanks. They will even provide cars to drive over. With the right license, you can probably mount a machine gun on it. Cannon, not so much. The tank is just a heavy farm tractor.
Cost to obtain, maintain and operate are probably prohibitive.
Yep. Driving a tank over cars was on my friend's bucket list before cancer killed her. She had the photos of grins from the hatch to prove it! Fuck cancer.

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

14
tonguengroover wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:34 am I have an old butterfly knife and used to be pretty fast with it. They typically have a good sized blade on them. But with all the assist type knives, out the front and plain old switchblades legally available these days what's the big deal?
I wondered about this, too-- but knife laws seem even wackier than gun laws, and vary a great deal from state to state.

"Spring-assisted" knives are fine in California for open carry, which a lot of Californians do not know. So long as you can see the clip, all is well. I've had movie / props folks in my psychotherapy office with them, even take them out of their pocket if they are large and uncomfortable when sitting, and place them on the table. No problem from me, or, I think, for LEOs.

However, spring-assisted is not legal in New York, I think, unless something has changed. I can't figure out the laws in New York, I don't know if a Swiss Army knife is legal on the subway. I did have a micro swiss army knife confiscated by TSA at JFK, though I had flown with it out of Burbank many times. (For that one, I paid the $30 or whatever to have them ship it back to me, because it was given to me by a good friend.)

Note that if I owned a switchblade, or OTF (stiletto) here in Los Angeles, it would be perfectly legal inside my house. However, they are illegal to purchase, and illegal to import into the state. So if an LEO finds one in someone's home, and asks where they got it, the only legal answer is, "I've had it since 1948 and lived here that long" or "I found it in the attic when I moved here."

The exception is switchblades or OTF with blades under two inches (witness the baby Kershaw launch.) These are legal in Cali, and legal to purchase here-- I do give them for stocking stuffers sometimes!

My worry is that now that the Butterfly Knife is on everyone's radar, someone will start a big push to make spring-assisted illegal, or tighten other knife laws.

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

16
Knife/blade laws are the only laws dumber than firearms laws. In California switchblades are illegal because they are too stabby, unless they have an under 2" blade.

You also can't have a dirk or a dagger and there isn't a legal definition of either. Generally they are a knife with a fixed double edged blade that's... too stabby.

Carry a pocket knife in your pocket. Carry a fixed blade knife with open carry, put it in your pocket and that's illegal because it's concealed. I'm not into knives so I don't keep up on the laws but they are goofy.

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

17
CA, HI, and WA are the only states within the 9th Circuit where butterfly knives are illegal. If those states accept the 9th panel decision and don't seek a 9th Circuit en banc hearing, we'll see if the courts or state legislatures change those laws. Apparently in CA a butterfly is considered to be a form of a switchblade knife. As BK said the law is vague.

CA Penal Code section 21510
Every person who does any of the following with a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor:

(a) Possesses the knife in the passenger’s or driver’s area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public.

(b) Carries the knife upon the person.

(c) Sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives the knife to any other person.
https://law.justia.com/codes/california ... %20person.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

19
Yup, the Hawaiian Islands are so green it's hard to believe that they could have any drought, but they do. And 60 mph winds are driving the fires.

We had a tragedy here Sunday, two contract Cal Fire choppers collided and three died. A Sikorsky water dropping chopper fighting a fire, collided with a Bell chopper that was observing. The Sikorsky managed to land but the Bell crashed, that chopper contained a state Cal Fire Division Chief and a Cal Fire Captain who along with the pilot were killed.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 9th Circuit 3-judge panel reverses Hawaii's butterfly knife ban as 2A violation

21
Butterfly knives, switchblades, nunchaku, brass knuckles, shuriken, saps, stilettos - there's a wide range of melee weapons that are highly regulated if not explicitly illegal at the state level in many jurisdictions. It's challenging to keep track of the rules state by state, but there are resources available for those with a belt in Google-fu.

There are typically two themes. One is that they seek to criminalize concealed weapons. But two, they frequently target concealable weapons associated with specific ethnic groups outside the historical WASP majority. Arguably the decriminalization of concealed firearms speaks to the specific privileges of race and wealth in white America as much as to the Second Amendment.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests