sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:17 am This is simply an issue that needs to be addressed by the administration. Currently it is the job of the biden administration, and whining about the previous administration’s lack of interest is not an excuse. We need to hold the current administration responsible for issues under their watch and not deflect to past ones and their failures.

highdesert wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:57 pm
“Congress made it illegal for unlawful drug users to possess firearms for the common sense and obvious reason that someone using illegal drugs, in possession of a firearm, poses a real danger to the community.” He also cited 2010’s United States v. Yancey in its finding habitual drug users represent similar threats to society as the mentally ill because they lack self-control.

SunRiseWest wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 4:25 pm Williams's bizarre attempt at reasoning? This is becoming increasingly common. It's one of the main reasons I wanted to start working mental health: Something has changed in the way our species works through problems. I kind of want to know what it is and why it happened.

highdesert wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:57 pm
“Congress made it illegal for unlawful drug users to possess firearms for the common sense and obvious reason that someone using illegal drugs, in possession of a firearm, poses a real danger to the community.” He also cited 2010’s United States v. Yancey in its finding habitual drug users represent similar threats to society as the mentally ill because they lack self-control.

I have been busted on this forum for using the term 'common sense,' and now I begin to see why. In my own opinion, the illegality of unlawful drug users possessing firearmes is neither obvious nor related to anything resembling 'common sense' or a logical reasoning process as I understand it.

There is nothing about the legality or illegality of a drug that renders it dangerous or not dangerous for a particular individual. Physicians may decide that certain very dangerous but legal drugs are safe for a particular individual. Sure, it would be fair to say that legally prescribed drugs used as directed are generally less likely to cause someone to use a firearm in a dangerous manner, but that's not a binary situation!

Furthermore, not all 'mentally ill' individuals lack self control. That's not a prerequisite for severe mental health symptoms! Some very serious disorders do not decrease impulse control at all.

The use of the terms 'common sense' and 'obvious' here would seem to be deliberately provocative. My feeling is that this kind of rhetoric belongs in the schoolyard or playground, not in a legal document.

Bisbee wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:18 pm I guess the idea of “common sense” is going the way of “witness testimony” where human memory has been shown (by neurogists, in controlled experiments) to be an unreliable a record of actual events over time or even hopelessly subjective due to multiple factors including unconscious biases.

Assembly Bill 374 was drafted by Assemblymember Matt Haney (D-San Francisco) and would allow local California governments to license the “Amersterdam-style” cafés to allow recreational cannabis users to get high in a designated business where they can also enjoy coffee, food and live entertainment. “Lots of people want to enjoy legal cannabis in the company of others,” Haney said. “And many people want to do that while sipping coffee, eating a scone, or listening to music. There’s absolutely no good reason from an economic, health, or safety standpoint that the state should make that illegal.” Haney said he drafted the bill to help out struggling cannabis businesses that were struggling due to “over-saturation, high taxes, and the thriving black market.”

The Assembly member’s office says California’s legal cannabis sales reached $4 billion in 2020, while illegal sales are believed to have more than doubled that. While adults are technically allowed to consume cannabis at a dispensary, the businesses are not allowed to sell any “non-cannabis-infused” products, i.e., coffee, pastries or other items. If Newsom signs the bill into law, it would allow cities and counties the ability to change that, making California’s cannabis industry look a bit more like Amsterdam’s. Some cities already allow for cannabis lounges, including West Hollywood, where two cannabis consumption lounges currently operate. In Amsterdam, meanwhile, there are more than 700 cafés.

Haney hopes that by making it easier for other cities and counties to follow their lead, struggling cannabis businesses will get a boost and California can capture the title of the world’s cannabis capital. “If an authorized cannabis retail store wants to also sell a cup of coffee and a sandwich, we should allow cities to make that possible and stop holding back these small businesses,” Haney said. Newsom has not publicly signaled any intentions to sign the bill into law, but the legislation did receive bipartisan support throughout the process, passing the California State Senate with a 33 to 3 vote and the Assembly with a 66 to 9 tally.

highdesert wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:48 am I don't think it should specifically be a user of illegal drugs, but being under the influence of any substance that impairs judgement. It could be alcohol, marijuana, Xanax, an amphetamine or any legal or illegal drug, they don't go with guns. Many people take sleeping pills at night, are they impaired to a degree that they couldn't use a gun if their home was invaded? These are the type of situations that lead to court cases.

sikacz wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:50 am

highdesert wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:48 am I don't think it should specifically be a user of illegal drugs, but being under the influence of any substance that impairs judgement. It could be alcohol, marijuana, Xanax, an amphetamine or any legal or illegal drug, they don't go with guns. Many people take sleeping pills at night, are they impaired to a degree that they couldn't use a gun if their home was invaded? These are the type of situations that lead to court cases.

Exactly. This calls for education on safe gun use. Do not touch under the influence of anything and even if just tired.

Wino wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:54 am Anyone under the influence of ANY legal or illegal substance should NOT be handling guns specifically and probably anything else that could harm others during one's stupor, say driving an auto or flying a plane.. Having said that, it isn't going to prevent an event from happening no matter how much we preach it. Humans do a lot of stupid things in their lifetime and I am no exception. I would choose a stoner over a drunk regardless. I strive to do that which is correct, but I have no control over others. Which is why I never hung around the corporate deer lease or gun meet after sunset when the bullshit, drinking and fireside tales and politics started - I was safely sequestered in my motel room til morning.

sig230 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:57 am Last night I had a St Arnold Banger IPA and before I poured the glass I put my gun in the safe.

And I live alone in a single family house in a 55+ community.

highdesert wrote: [quote=sikacz post_id=901726 time=<a href="tel:1695570658">1695570658</a> user_id=5271]
[quote=highdesert post_id=901725 time=<a href="tel:1695570525">1695570525</a> user_id=1054]
I don't think it should specifically be a user of illegal drugs, but being under the influence of any substance that impairs judgement. It could be alcohol, marijuana, Xanax, an amphetamine or any legal or illegal drug, they don't go with guns. Many people take sleeping pills at night, are they impaired to a degree that they couldn't use a gun if their home was invaded? These are the type of situations that lead to court cases.

sig230 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:57 am Last night I had a St Arnold Banger IPA and before I poured the glass I put my gun in the safe.

And I live alone in a single family house in a 55+ community.

sikacz wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:50 am

highdesert wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:48 am I don't think it should specifically be a user of illegal drugs, but being under the influence of any substance that impairs judgement. It could be alcohol, marijuana, Xanax, an amphetamine or any legal or illegal drug, they don't go with guns. Many people take sleeping pills at night, are they impaired to a degree that they couldn't use a gun if their home was invaded? These are the type of situations that lead to court cases.

Exactly. This calls for education on safe gun use. Do not touch under the influence of anything and even if just tired.

Wino wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:32 pm No way, drunk or sober and alone would I lock up my EDC or bedside. I do know when I can and cannot safely touch a weapon. BUT, living alone in a stand alone house in a dying neighborhood with shootings happening in area almost daily (not Chicago, but sometimes wonder), no way will I disarm myself or make it difficult to reach. I do not clean, carry nor practice safe gun handling while drinking or inebriated - my EDC is holstered and nearby, bedside holstered. Inebriated days for me are few and far between these days. On the other hand, I have NEVER hunted game (fowl mostly) under the influence and have packed my shit and left when others did. Doesn't mean that beer/booze wasn't in ice chest, just that it wasn't touched until guns and ammo stashed at hunt days end. I just don't have patience with people who are careless with guns - never have and never will. You point a gun at me accidentally or on purpose, loaded or unloaded, the chances we'll ever be gunning together again will be remote - but you'll know why.

sikacz wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:23 pm We knew what you meant. LoL !