The latest twist in the inquiry into former President Donald J. Trump’s handling of classified documents is the surprise revelation that a previously unknown federal grand jury in Florida has recently started hearing testimony in the case. The grand jury in Florida is separate from the one that has been sitting for months in Washington and has been the center of activity for prosecutors as they investigate whether Mr. Trump mishandled classified documents after leaving office or obstructed efforts to retrieve them. Among those who have appeared before the Washington grand jury in the past few months or have been subpoenaed by it, people familiar with the investigation said, are more than 20 members of Mr. Trump’s Secret Service security detail. But there are indications that the Washington grand jury — located in the city’s federal courthouse — may have stopped hearing witness testimony in recent weeks, according to three people familiar with its workings.

It is an open question why prosecutors impaneled the Florida grand jury — which is sitting in Federal District Court in Miami — and whether it is now the only one hearing testimony. This uncertainty, which is largely due to the secret nature of grand juries, serves to underscore how much about the management of the documents case by the special counsel Jack Smith remains out of public view. “We know a tiny fraction of what agents and prosecutors know, and so it is hazardous, if not impossible, to figure out the government’s strategy from afar,” said Chuck Rosenberg, a former U.S. attorney and F.B.I. official. “It is like the guy berating an umpire for missed calls from the cheap seats.” But even though much is shrouded in mystery, legal experts and people familiar with the inquiry suggested that there could be a number of reasons Mr. Smith may have chosen to use a grand jury in Florida for at least some elements of the case. His decision could have significant effects on how the inquiry plays out. In simple terms, the people familiar with the matter said, if both grand juries are in operation, it suggests that prosecutors are considering bringing charges in both Washington and Florida. It is possible that Mr. Trump could be charged in one jurisdiction while other people involved in the case are charged in the other.

It would not be so unusual if Mr. Smith’s team opened the documents investigation in Washington and then chose to move it to Florida because of legal issues related to venue, said Brandon L. Van Grack, a former federal prosecutor who worked on cases involving national security and classified material. “It’s common in situations involving classified information when prosecutors are uncertain of venue to ground an investigation in Washington, Virginia or Maryland,” Mr. Van Grack said. “The point is just because it starts there, doesn’t mean it has to end there. You don’t know what your potential venue hooks are until you’ve completed a thorough investigation.” Mr. Van Grack said it would be relatively easy to move a grand jury inquiry from Washington to Miami if needed. Prosecutors would simply have to read the early grand jury transcripts to the new grand jurors or have federal agents offer them a summary of the most important points. If Mr. Smith is considering bringing charges in both Washington and Miami, it is possible that the latter might involve potential targets who live and work in Florida. Investigators, for example, have been scrutinizing the roles of two employees of Mr. Trump at Mar-a-Lago, his private club and residence, for their roles in the storage and security of classified documents there.

CDFingers wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:21 am I think they should measure a standard cell window for orange draperies.

CDFingers

highdesert wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:27 am I agree YT. Republicans salivated about Clinton going to prison over the Lewinski affair and HRC over the her private server, but it never happened. Democrats salivate over Trump but I don't see it happening, he might get fines and house arrest, but I don't see him entering prison. Americans still have deference for the presidency no matter who holds the office. We talk about "equal justice under law", but it really doesn't apply to billionaires and ex-presidents.

Greengunner wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:11 pm I don't care about hush money payments and I don't care about mishandling documents (although he totally deserves to go down on that one). I care about a disinformation campaign that led to a failed coup. I care about dereliction of duty during that coup. I care about a conspiracy to commit election fraud involving fake electors. I care about pressure campaigns against state secretaries to add votes and make false statements. I care about the harassment, intimidation, and defamation of poll workers.

The Department of Justice is preparing to ask a Washington, DC grand jury to indict former president Donald Trump for violating the Espionage Act and for obstruction of justice as soon as Thursday, adding further weight to the legal baggage facing Mr Trump as he campaigns for his party’s nomination in next year’s presidential election. The Independent has learned that prosecutors are ready to ask grand jurors to approve an indictment against Mr Trump for violating a portion of the US criminal code known as Section 793, which prohibits “gathering, transmitting or losing” any “information respecting the national defence”.

The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trump’s ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021. That section of US criminal law is written in a way that could encompass Mr Trump’s conduct even if he was authorised to possess the information as president because it states that anyone who “lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document ...relating to the national defence,” and “willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it” can be punished by as many as 10 years in prison.

It is understood that prosecutors intend to ask grand jurors to vote on the indictment on Thursday, but that vote could be delayed as much as a week until the next meeting of the grand jury to allow for a complete presentation of evidence, or to allow investigators to gather more evidence for presentation if necessary. A separate grand jury that is meeting in Florida has also been hearing evidence in the documents investigation. That grand jury was empaneled in part to overcome legal issues posed by the fact that some of the crimes allegedly committed by Mr Trump took place in that jurisdiction, not in Washington. Under federal law, prosecutors must bring charges against federal defendants in the jurisdiction where the crimes took place. Even if grand jurors vote to return an indictment against the ex-president this week, it is likely that those charges would remain sealed until both the Washington and Florida grand juries complete their work.

The Justice Department recently informed Donald Trump’s legal team that he is a target in a federal investigation into the possible mishandling of classified documents, sources familiar with the matter told CNN, a sign that prosecutors may be moving closer to indicting the former president. The sources have been informed of the target letter and its contents but had not seen it themselves. Prosecutors’ decision to inform Trump he’s a target crystallizes that special counsel Jack Smith’s investigation is focused on Trump’s actions and not just the actions of people around him.

jc57 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:43 pm

Greengunner wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:11 pm I don't care about hush money payments and I don't care about mishandling documents (although he totally deserves to go down on that one). I care about a disinformation campaign that led to a failed coup. I care about dereliction of duty during that coup. I care about a conspiracy to commit election fraud involving fake electors. I care about pressure campaigns against state secretaries to add votes and make false statements. I care about the harassment, intimidation, and defamation of poll workers.

Well, people didn't really care that much about Al Capone not paying taxes, compared to all of the violence and crime his enterprise was responsible for. But it was what they could prove and it had teeth - long prison time, and federal time at that, so not in the local jails where he had more of a chance of having some leverage.

While it would be more satisfying for a criminal to do the time for the big crime he was suspected of, if you can get him put away for the same length of time or longer because he had a mountain of unpaid parking tickets.... well, you take what you can get.

SubRosa wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:34 am As long as he is prohibited from being president again is all I can hope for.