Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

26
Fitch Ratings - London - 24 May 2023: Fitch Ratings has placed the United States' 'AAA' Long-Term Foreign-Currency Issuer Default Rating (IDR) on Rating Watch Negative.
Fitch is one of the three big credit rating agencies along with Moody's and Standard & Poor's that rate countries, banks and corporations. They were active recently in downgrading Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank and First Republic Bank and are still active monitoring regional banks.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

27
We wouldn't even need to return to those tax rates - if corporate overlords weren't greedy dirtbags and paid good wages to everyone. There's nothing structurally inherent to capitalism that requires grotesque inequality, any more than "communism" enforced economic equality in practice.

We don't practice democratic capitalism though. What we have is corporate feudalism, just like the USSR evolved into bureaucratic feudalism under a red banner.

Power and greed corrupt. Doesn't seem to matter how often our moral leaders remind us of that, or how important it is to practice grace, generosity and kindness. I guess that's why we have to practice grip, stance, breath and trigger control - just in case.

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

28
Kev is a spineless idiot. I don't believe Biden will allow the US to default and if the MTG/Gaetz imbecile fascists try to force it, Biden WILL invoke the 14th according to Lawrence Tribe's interpretation.

As Katie Porter, with her usual brilliance, put it: Suppose you have a credit card and you arbitrarily put a $1000 debt ceiling on yourself, but you're stuck running it up to $1500. You can't go to your C/C company and say "It's past my debt ceiling so I'm not going to pay you!". They'll send your account to a bill collector, revoke your card, and (deservedly) fuck up your credit rating completely. And you'll STILL have to pay the bill!

The debt ceiling is bullshit and we all know it, and it's ONLY invoked when a Dem is in the WH, NEVER when a ReThug is there!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

29
If Biden was serious about testing the 14th Amendment, he should have started a court case in January so SCOTUS could have ruled on it, now he's up against a wall. He wanted to avoid any cuts by saying he wanted a clean bill, that's ridiculous it would never happen. Cuts are inevitable, he just doesn't want to tell Congressional Democrats to accept them and move on.

And McCarthy can't herd the cats he has, he's weak and trying to raise the debt ceiling with Democratic votes could be political suicide for him. McConnell is standing back watching, he'll probably have to clean up the mess for Republicans.

The debt ceiling is ridiculous, Congress has already approved all those expenditures and the debt ceiling should rise as they approve them. It's a game where one party holds the other one hostage, it gets a lot of media attention. If Democrats were to win using the 14th, then Republicans would do the same thing when they controlled the WH.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

30
highdesert wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 9:03 am If Biden was serious about testing the 14th Amendment, he should have started a court case in January so SCOTUS could have ruled on it,
I respectfully disagree, totally. Tribe's argument is elegant and clear: If an agreement cannot be reached, Biden MUST break either of two laws and cannot comply with both. The first is the Debt Ceiling Law, and the second is the approved budget bill that will "break" the Debt Ceiling. Since the Budget Law is newer, Biden is OBLIGATED to comply with that over the Debt Ceiling. As the old saying goes "It's easier to apologize after than get permission before!"
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

31
Here's Marketplace talking about minting a platinum coin.
In 1997, Congress passed legislation that allowed the U.S. Mint to create platinum coins of any denomination — including $1 trillion or $31 trillion, explained Reilly White, an associate professor of finance at the University of New Mexico.

The purpose was to help the mint generate revenue from coin collectors through the sale of platinum coins, White noted.

“It wasn’t perceived at that time as being a potential workaround to this debt ceiling crisis,” White said.

The idea for a $1 trillion coin began gaining traction amid the 2011 debt ceiling crisis, when Republicans similarly demanded spending cuts before agreeing to increase the debt limit.
https://www.marketplace.org/2023/05/12/ ... onal-debt/

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

32
Lawrence Tribe is a brilliant constitutional lawyer, but I have no doubt there are constitutional scholars who would disagree with him. The only opinions that really count are 5 SCOTUS justices who could either say yes or no to Biden. Looking at some of their recent decisions it could even be unanimous one way or the other. SCOTUS doesn't give advisory opinions like for example the UK or Canadian supreme courts do, SCOTUS only deals with cases.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

33
As we have seen in the past the Rethugs demand cuts to social programs to "balance the Budget" when they aren't in the White House. When they are in the White House they are spend spend and spend till they are voted out. Then it is rinse and repeat time again. It is worse this time because we have more very vocal Rethugs idiots in the congress especially in the House. I thought when we had the likes of Louie Gohmert, Devin Nunes and a few others in the House, it had sunk to its lowest point. But this House has proven me wrong.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

34
If Biden and McCarthy work out a deal it doesn't mean they'll have enough votes from both parties to pass it. This isn't new or unique, Democrats demanded and Trump made cuts to raise the debt ceiling, Republicans made demands when Obama was in office, Democrats made demands when Bush I & II were in office... It's the game of politics, ammunition for both parties for the election.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

35
“There is zero chance the debt issue will not get resolved even though there will be posturing and debate right up to the last minute before timelines are extended or the debt limit is raised,” Siegel wrote in his WisdomTree commentary this week."
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-worl ... p_catchall

They do this all the time. To me it's like sleight of hand....while we are busy taking sides over who is right and who is wrong and biting our nails in fear that SS won't get paid or might default and crash the global economy the real drama and stuff we should be watching is unfolding outside of this Dog and Pony Show. IMO/YMMV.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

36
After tough negotiations to reach a tentative deal with the White House on the U.S. borrowing limit, the next challenge for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is pushing it through the House, where hardline Republicans are already threatening to sink it.As Democratic and Republican negotiators iron out the final details of an agreement to suspend the federal government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling in coming days, McCarthy may be forced to do some behind-the-scenes wrangling. "We're going to try" to stop it from passing the House, Representative Chip Roy, a prominent member of the hardline House Freedom Caucus, said on Twitter. House and Senate Republicans were critical of the deal's time frame and emerging terms.

A failure by Congress to deal with its self-imposed debt ceiling before June 5 could trigger a default that would shake financial markets and send the United States into a deep recession. Republicans control the House 222-213, while Democrats control the Senate 51-49. These margins mean that moderates from both sides will have to support the bill, as any compromise will almost definitely lose the support of the far left and far right wings of each party. To win the speaker's gavel, McCarthy agreed to enable any single member to call for a vote to unseat him, which could lead to his ouster if he seeks to work with Democrats. Roy complained on Twitter on Sunday that the agreement would leave intact an expansion of the tax-collecting Internal Revenue Service set in place when Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress.

Senator Lindsey Graham also expressed concern about the deal's potential effect on U.S. defense and Washington's support for Ukraine. "Do not intend to default on debt, but will not support a deal that reduces the size of the Navy and prevents continued technological and weapons assistance to Ukraine," Graham tweeted. "Punting at your opponent’s one-yard line isn’t a winning strategy," Republican Senator Mike Lee said on Twitter. The deal suspends the debt ceiling until January 2025, after the November 2024 presidential election, in exchange for caps on spending and cuts in government programs.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/mccart ... 023-05-28/

The House returns on Wednesday May 31st to vote on it. If McCarthy is dependent on Democratic votes to pass it will it end his speakership? If both chambers can't pass this deal, maybe they'll pass a 3 or 6 month debt ceiling bill to prevent default.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

38
After the signature, I'm looking forward to the SEC investigations of Congress using the debt threat to manipulate the market for personal gain on their investments.

Charges will never stick - we saw that with the lockdown investments - but it would be nice to see how much money these bastards made off the hostage negotiation.

This is the part that I enjoy -
Rep. Nancy Mace wrote:Washington is broken. Republicans got outsmarted by a President who can't find his pants
Image

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

39
Even before Biden has signed the bill, there is already some mild crowing on both sides. Republicans can't crow too much, only 149 out of 222 Republicans voted for it. And only 165 our of 213 Democrats voted for the bill, there were wins and losses on both sides. Some Republicans may be pissed at McCarthy, but they don't have a candidate or the votes to replace him. Political theatre at it's best.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

40
Biden played Kev like a cheap violin and to cement his victory allowed Kev to crow that HE won!
Anyone who thinks Biden is losing his marbles wasn't paying attention to Biden's Shaolin Master political negotiating.
He also proved that the GOP majority in the House is a mile wide and a millimeter thick...their "coalition" collapsed like wet tissue paper. Same in the Senate because McConnell, as corrupt as he is, is not STUPID and know what Default means, whether it's actual default, or the virtual default of cutting all the social welfare programs.

It may not seem so on the surface, but this may well be one of Biden's finest moments as President.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

41
Yeah, YT, I agree. Kev had a weak hand going in, and Biden knows Congressional procedures and tendencies like we know which side of the toast has the butter. Biden was confident going in that he had the stronger hand. He's fairly gracious in victory, though I know a few good friends of mine who'd love to see a few Repub scrota hanging from the rearview of Joe's Vette.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Raising the debt limit, the brinkmanship and blame game.

42
CDFingers wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:41 pm Yeah, YT, I agree. Kev had a weak hand going in, and Biden knows Congressional procedures and tendencies like we know which side of the toast has the butter. Biden was confident going in that he had the stronger hand. He's fairly gracious in victory, though I know a few good friends of mine who'd love to see a few Repub scrota hanging from the rearview of Joe's Vette.

CDFingers
Biden took his victory lap tonight, gracious toward McCarthy and McConnell, and all the "RINOS" who voted for the bill (as TOS calls them), while dumping appropriately on the MAGAts who wanted the nation to default, and, of course, the head MAGat, TOS.

Nice to finally have a competent President again.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests