Re: ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

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featureless wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:49 am
sikacz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am This serves no useful purpose.
It does if you're end goal is fundraising rather than giving a shit about the little people.
Millionaires and billionaires and their BS. I'm for appropriating their wealth in the name of public safety and equality. Extreme wealth encourages their privileged authoritarian behavior. They have proved they cannot handle the responsibility of being wealthier than the rest of the people. Abuse of power and money is power should not be tolerated especially when it is used to deprive others of rights, regardless of the rights in question.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

30
sikacz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:54 am
featureless wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:49 am
sikacz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am This serves no useful purpose.
It does if you're end goal is fundraising rather than giving a shit about the little people.
Millionaires and billionaires and their BS. I'm for appropriating their wealth in the name of public safety and equality. Extreme wealth encourages their privileged authoritarian behavior. They have proved they cannot handle the responsibility of being wealthier than the rest of the people. Abuse of power and money is power should not be tolerated especially when it is used to deprive others of rights, regardless of the rights in question.
The first generation robber barons believed that they knew how to handle money they hoarded off the backs of the working class better than the actual working class. Rather than allow people to keep more of the money that they generated for the robber barons, the robber barons acted in patronizing fashion by telling the working class what they needed, through endowments and philanthropy.

Very little has changed.

This ATF proposal is just further proof of that.

Re: ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

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NegativeApproach wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:10 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:54 am
featureless wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:49 am
sikacz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am This serves no useful purpose.
It does if you're end goal is fundraising rather than giving a shit about the little people.
Millionaires and billionaires and their BS. I'm for appropriating their wealth in the name of public safety and equality. Extreme wealth encourages their privileged authoritarian behavior. They have proved they cannot handle the responsibility of being wealthier than the rest of the people. Abuse of power and money is power should not be tolerated especially when it is used to deprive others of rights, regardless of the rights in question.
The first generation robber barons believed that they knew how to handle money they hoarded off the backs of the working class better than the actual working class. Rather than allow people to keep more of the money that they generated for the robber barons, the robber barons acted in patronizing fashion by telling the working class what they needed, through endowments and philanthropy.

Very little has changed.

This ATF proposal is just further proof of that.
Yes.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

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Includes a nice breakdown of the ATF's letters and the organization's reversing of itself on what is considered NFA.
Biden Is Cracking Down On Guns Again With AR-15 Pistol Ban, And He’s Using Heller To Do It
However, as explained here, Heller erred in at least two respects. First, it misinterpreted the Supreme Court’s decision in U.S. v. Miller (1939). Miller indicated that the right to keep and bear arms includes all arms that “have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia,” such as those that are “part of the ordinary military equipment” and any others the use of which “could contribute to the common defense.”

Miller also noted that militiamen were historically “expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time,” so Heller ignored the discussion of military and militia arms and instead concluded that Miller limited the right to arms to those “in common use.”

Also, Heller flat-out lied about so-called “dangerous and unusual weapons” laws, referred to by the DOJ. By way of background, the English Statute of Northampton (1328) prohibited people from carrying arms in affray of the peace, and in 1696 an English court interpreted that law to prohibit being armed, not in general, but for the purpose of terrorizing people. William Blackstone, in his famous 1769 Commentaries on the Laws of England, was first to use the phraseology “dangerous and unusual weapons” in this context, writing that the “[t]he offence of riding or going armed, with dangerous or unusual weapons, is a crime against the peace, by terrifying the good people of the land.”

Re: ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

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Republican Senators trying to get PR from 2021R-08 could be of benefit but probably won't.
Senate Republicans: Newly proposed ATF rules could pave way for national gun registry
The Republicans wrote that the rules are “concerning enough on their face,” while slamming the AFT for its “apparent willingness” to reform firearms policy unilaterally.

“Americans’ rights to keep and bear firearms are safeguarded by the Second Amendment, and the responsibility for implementing those constitutional protections rests with elected lawmakers — not unelected federal bureaucrats,” they said.

Re: ATF 2021R-08: "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces'”

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I don't have any skin in this game. But, I will play devils advocate. The AR Pistol owners brought this on themselves when they were going on You Tube and guns websites bragging and demonstrating how they can use their homebuilt "wrist Brace" as a shoulder stock. The minute they put it to their shoulder and fired it, the brace and pistol became magically by law a short barrel rifle.

The SBR like the Short Barrel Shotgun law has been around since the 1930s when Clyde Barrow like to use his short barrel and short stock BAR to hold up banks and kill police.

I have a Mossberg Shockwave with the weapon a copy of the letter from the ATF and a warning from Mossberg not to modify the hand grip on the weapon to allow any brace or extend the length of the weapon as it would then be classified as a Short Barrel Shotgun and require a tax stamp.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: ATF 2021R-08: "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces'”

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That's because the shokwave was deemed by the atf, with a brace, as an illegal sbs.
The ar15s where not.

As for "bringing it on them selves" millions, literally millions of people have ar braces, and the atf decided that shouldering one does not make it an sbr.. you can't expect people to just hold that info in there pocket.

Fact is, your shockwave "firearm" will still be reclassified and you will be a felon. So get some goddamn skin in the game friend.
It's on the same "grey line" the ar pistol guys are walking.
"How long have you been holding that grenade?"

Re: ATF 2021R-08: "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces'”

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ATF has submitted a supporting statement for changing the Form 1 to accommodate a limited amnesty and waiving of the $200 tax for when people are forced to NFA register, destroy, or surrender their firearms to the government once the ATF declares most braced pistols to be SBRs in December.
https://omb.report/icr/202208-1140-007/doc/124454800
https://archive.ph/o9tLY

Re: ATF 2021R-08: "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces'”

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featureless wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:20 pm Good. It's a bullshit rule. Consistent definitions are key if we'd like law to work.
One would hope consistency would have always been the goal instead of pandering to political interests of the current party in charge or their minions within the ATF. Political agendas have no place in an organization like the ATF.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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