Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The authorities offered on Monday the first account of how the child obtained the gun, saying that the weapon, a 9-millimeter Taurus handgun, came from his home and that it had been legally purchased by his mother. “The child had obtained that firearm, placed it in his backpack and brought it to school,” Chief Drew said, citing interviews with the child and his mother. Chief Drew said that any potential charges would be based on “what the facts are and what the law supports.” The child is receiving treatment at a medical facility, the authorities said. His family has not been identified.
The focus in elementary schools had been on preventing adult active shooters from entering classrooms, Mr. Parker said. But now, he said, some steps taken at high schools, like metal detectors, may need to be explored. “I hate to be at this point where I’m considering this, but we have to start relying on those types of deterrence at the elementary level as well,” said Mr. Parker, who seemed distressed to even be thinking about such measures.
Chief Drew said another school employee came into the classroom at the sound of the gunshot and “restrained that young man — that child, I should say.” The boy struck the employee but did not fire another shot, the police said. The gun, which still held bullets, was on the floor when the police arrived.
In the front office, school officials were busy ordering a schoolwide lockdown, having just been told that a shooting had taken place in one of the first-grade classrooms, said Lowanda Sample-Rusk, 55, who was there to pick up her 5- and 7-year-old grandchildren. Before the office itself was locked, Ms. Zwerner showed up at the door. “She said: ‘Call 911. I’ve been shot,’” Ms. Sample-Rusk recalled. “And then she fainted.” Ms. Sample-Rusk and others in the office immediately ran to Ms. Zwerner and began administering first aid, seeing blood on Ms. Zwerner’s hand but trying to “find out where the gunshot wound was.” They found that Ms. Zwerner had been shot in the chest, and Ms. Sample-Rusk applied pressure to the wound until the police came.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/09/us/n ... oting.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Caveat: I know that my experience does NOT scale to the general population!

Before I was born--indeed, before my parents started dating--my mother had fired her father's shotgun. She was not a total stranger to firearms. She did not allow me to have toy "guns" as a child, as she believed (rightly, IMNSHO) that guns are not toys (and to this day I have a hard time referring to any pistol as a "range toy").

I was fourteen when I received a .22 rifle. My father figured I would treat it with more respect than I would a BB gun. Never mind that I was not given any instruction regarding firearms until I joined the high school ROTC unit several months later...

So I can't imagine six-year-old me having access to a firearm. Heck, I can't imagine six-year-old me being that mad at a teacher. Being that mad at my father? Different story. Terrified of him would be more accurate, and I certainly didn't feel that I had agency to do much about it, and I don't think it would have occurred to me to pull out a gun to "solve" the problems.

Coincidentally, my father was born in Newport News, Virginia. His parents lived in Williamsburg--his father taught at William and Mary from about 1932 to some time in the 1990s, with breaks for his time at UVA to get his Master of Science in Chemistry and at Michigan for his PhD in Chemistry. The house they owned from 1947 until my grandmother's death in 2015 was a cornerstone for my life.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The authorities offered on Monday the first account of how the child obtained the gun, saying that the weapon, a 9-millimeter Taurus handgun, came from his home and that it had been legally purchased by his mother. “The child had obtained that firearm, placed it in his backpack and brought it to school,” Chief Drew said, citing interviews with the child and his mother. Chief Drew said that any potential charges would be based on “what the facts are and what the law supports.”
I worry that the 'authorities' will give the parents a pass since the issue the parents have with their 6 yo is really, really bad. I'm sure the mom or parents will be charged, and fined and probably lose their firearms but no jail time. Kid is sick, feel sorry for him.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Administrators at the Virginia school where a first-grader shot his teacher last week learned the child may have had a weapon in his possession before the shooting but did not find the 9mm handgun he brought to school despite searching his bag, the school system's superintendent said. Police said Friday they were not told about the tip before the shooting occurred. Kelly King, a spokesperson for the Newport News Police Department, told The Associated Press that some time after the shooting, police learned through their investigation that a school employee was notified of a possible gun at Richneck Elementary School before the Jan. 6 shooting. “The Newport News Police Department was not notified of this information prior to the incident,” King wrote in an email.

The student’s backpack was searched after school officials received the tip, but the gun wasn’t found before the shooting, said Michelle Price, a spokesperson for the Newport News school district. She declined to comment on the police statement. She said that typically, when school officials receive a tip about a potential weapon or other contraband in the schools, if the tip includes specific information about a particular student or a particular classroom, “that's where the search starts.” “I'm not able to comment on whether other searches may have occurred, except for the fact that the superintendent has shared that the student's backpack was searched and nothing was found at the time,” Price told The Associated Press. Price confirmed that Superintendent George Parker told parents during an online meeting Thursday night that at least one school administrator was notified the boy may have a weapon before the 6-year-old shot the teacher. Parker’s comments were first reported by WAVY-TV, which gained access to the parents-only meeting.
Police Chief Steve Drew has previously said the boy brought the gun to school in his backpack the day of the shooting. Price said she has not been told where school officials believe the gun was when the boy's backpack was searched. “That probably is definitely part of our internal investigation and the police investigation, but nothing about that has been released publicly," Price said. She declined to comment when asked who reported that the boy may have a weapon and whether school officials should have taken additional steps after the weapon was not found in his backpack.
https://news.yahoo.com/superintendent-o ... 02583.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Police said Friday they were not told about the tip before the shooting occurred. Kelly King, a spokesperson for the Newport News Police Department, told The Associated Press that some time after the shooting, police learned through their investigation that a school employee was notified of a possible gun at Richneck Elementary School before the Jan. 6 shooting. “The Newport News Police Department was not notified of this information prior to the incident,” King wrote in an email.
Where did this 'tip' come from? Who told the 'school employee' about a possible gun? Another kid?

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CowboyT wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:11 pm
CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:53 pm I can't help you comprehend. Some folks always wrankle against voluntary restraint. Sometimes it'll be that way.

CDFingers
With all respect, CDFingers...those are the definitions of the words.
Meaning and comprehension frequently lie in different universes. I think comprehending safe storage is the easier task than the subtle differences between freedom and liberty.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:13 pm
CowboyT wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:11 pm
CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:53 pm I can't help you comprehend. Some folks always wrankle against voluntary restraint. Sometimes it'll be that way.

CDFingers
With all respect, CDFingers...those are the definitions of the words.
Meaning and comprehension frequently lie in different universes. I think comprehending safe storage is the easier task than the subtle differences between freedom and liberty.

CDFingers
That'll never work for some...even mentioning something as obvious as safe storage and you'll get the inevitable, "Muh guns, mind yer own bizness", or the 'don't tread on me' crap, saying dictating 'safe storage' is 'treading on the 2A' type pablum.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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F4FEver wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:53 am
CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:13 pm
CowboyT wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:11 pm
CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:53 pm I can't help you comprehend. Some folks always wrankle against voluntary restraint. Sometimes it'll be that way.

CDFingers
With all respect, CDFingers...those are the definitions of the words.
Meaning and comprehension frequently lie in different universes. I think comprehending safe storage is the easier task than the subtle differences between freedom and liberty.

CDFingers
That'll never work for some...even mentioning something as obvious as safe storage and you'll get the inevitable, "Muh guns, mind yer own bizness", or the 'don't tread on me' crap, saying dictating 'safe storage' is 'treading on the 2A' type pablum.
Yeah. Sometimes it'll be that way. Freedom is untidy; liberty, less so.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:14 am
F4FEver wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:53 am
CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:13 pm
CowboyT wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:11 pm

With all respect, CDFingers...those are the definitions of the words.
Meaning and comprehension frequently lie in different universes. I think comprehending safe storage is the easier task than the subtle differences between freedom and liberty.

CDFingers
That'll never work for some...even mentioning something as obvious as safe storage and you'll get the inevitable, "Muh guns, mind yer own bizness", or the 'don't tread on me' crap, saying dictating 'safe storage' is 'treading on the 2A' type pablum.
Yeah. Sometimes it'll be that way. Freedom is untidy; liberty, less so.

CDFingers
With this I am reminded of the saying.
The right or freedom to swing your fist freely, ends where the other man’s nose begins.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The problem isn't in the nuance between freedom or liberty. It's about responsibility.

When I was a kid, sure, I knew better than to touch dad's .22 without permission. I also got into literally everything else. Individual gun ownership is one thing, but when other people have access to them, then the rights become a whole lot more complicated.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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wings wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:15 pm The problem isn't in the nuance between freedom or liberty. It's about responsibility.

When I was a kid, sure, I knew better than to touch dad's .22 without permission. I also got into literally everything else. Individual gun ownership is one thing, but when other people have access to them, then the rights become a whole lot more complicated.
Yes, and I'll say it again...way, WAY too many legal gun owners show no sense of responsibility with their legally obtained gun.
https://www.wqow.com/news/crime/crimina ... f831c.html

https://nypost.com/2022/12/05/florida-c ... deo-games/

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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In the hours before a 6-year-old boy shot his first-grade teacher in Virginia this month, school leaders were warned three times that the boy might have a gun, a lawyer for the teacher said on Wednesday, including an account from another child at the school who tearfully reported that the boy had shown him the gun at recess. The lawyer, Diane Toscano, announced the teacher’s intent to file a lawsuit against the school district in Newport News, Va., laying out a series of escalating warnings that unfolded on the day of the shooting, when the police say a 6-year-old boy took his mother’s gun from home, brought it to Richneck Elementary School and fired at his teacher, Abigail Zwerner.

The shooting has shaken the community, raised alarms about rising gun violence in schools in the United States and led to visceral demands for accountability from parents and educators in Newport News, where the school board will meet to decide the fate of the superintendent on Wednesday night. A spokeswoman for Newport News Public Schools declined to comment on the lawyer’s statement and timeline of events, citing an ongoing investigation. On the day of the shooting, a teacher had searched the boy’s backpack, believing that he might have a gun, Ms. Toscano said. No gun was found, but the teacher reported to the school administration around 12:30 p.m. that she believed the boy had put the gun in his pocket before going outside for recess. Instead of searching the boy, Ms. Toscano said, an administrator dismissed the threat, saying that the 6-year-old “has little pockets.”

Around 1 p.m. — about an hour before the shooting — another teacher reported that a student had come to the teacher crying, saying that the 6-year-old had shown him the gun at recess and threatened to shoot the student if the student told anyone, Ms. Toscano said. “What did administrators do?” Ms. Toscano said at a news conference on Wednesday, where she announced plans to file the lawsuit. “Did administrators call the police? No. Did administrators lock down the school? No. Did administrators evacuate the building? No. Did they confront the student? No.” By around 2 p.m. in front of his classmates in their first-grade classroom, the boy pointed the gun at Ms. Zwerner and fired, the police said. Ms. Zwerner, 25, was shot in the chest, and a bullet remains lodged in her body, according to her lawyer, who said that her client was beginning a long journey of physical and psychological recovery.
The family of the 6-year-old has said that he has an “acute disability” and that his mother or father had previously been attending school with him each day. The week of the shooting — just after the holidays — was the first time that a parent had not been in class with him, the family said. The student had previously threatened to light a teacher on fire and, in one incident, threw furniture and other items in class, leaving other students frightened, according to The Washington Post. On the day of the shooting, Ms. Zwerner reported to the school that the boy had threatened to beat up another child, her lawyer said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/25/us/n ... board.html
https://archive.ph/UHPkx
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Yes: apparently there were four opportunities squandered by District employees that the kid had a gun.
Zwerner first went to a school administrator between 11:15 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. and said the student threatened to beat up a classmate, Toscano said. A second teacher went to a school administrator at 12:30 p.m. and told the administrator the teacher took it upon herself to search the 6-year-old boy's backpack.

"The administrator downplayed the report from the teacher and the possibility of a gun," Toscano said.

A third teacher told an administrator shortly before 1 p.m., the boy showed a student the gun at recess and "threatened to shoot him if he told anybody," Toscano said.

A fourth employee asked an administrator for permission to search the boy and was denied, Toscano said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna67290

Yuuuge lawsuit. Who suffers? The students will lose access to learning materials to pay for this.

People actually need to take guns seriously. I really think that more guns is the solution--that is, gun safety should be taught in schools, more people should target shoot, and BB gun competitions should be like football and basketball where schools compete against each other. Familiarity breeds safety.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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another teacher reported that a student had come to the teacher crying, saying that the 6-year-old had shown him the gun at recess and threatened to shoot the student if the student told anyone, Ms. Toscano said.
The family of the 6-year-old has said that he has an “acute disability” and that his mother or father had previously been attending school with him each day. The week of the shooting — just after the holidays — was the first time that a parent had not been in class with him, the family said. The student had previously threatened to light a teacher on fire and, in one incident, threw furniture and other items in class, leaving other students frightened, according to The Washington Post. On the day of the shooting, Ms. Zwerner reported to the school that the boy had threatened to beat up another child, her lawyer said.
Really feel sorry for the 6 year old. He is very sick, but another reason to either not have guns in his household or be diligent about securing them.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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I feel sorry for the idiocy of the parent who said the gun was "secure." Obviously it was not. Dang. The stupid burns. This stupid precipitates from the people who think that just saying something means everyone should accept it as true, despite the obvious and measurable facts. I'm pretty sure we can thank the likes of Fox News and those kind of tabloid media for this burning stupid.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Right now the latest information is from the teacher's lawsuit which are allegations. Don't know what's in the police investigation reports, likely sealed because a minor is involved. Have to wait until it comes to trial for the real evidence, but it could never come to trial, the district will probably do a settlement to make it go away. They want it out of the media.

The Newport News School Board fired the superintendent last night.
https://www.wtkr.com/news/newport-news- ... k-shooting
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:43 am Right now the latest information is from the teacher's lawsuit which are allegations. Don't know what's in the police investigation reports, likely sealed because a minor is involved. Have to wait until it comes to trial for the real evidence, but it could never come to trial, the district will probably do a settlement to make it go away. They want it out of the media.

The Newport News School Board fired the superintendent last night.
https://www.wtkr.com/news/newport-news- ... k-shooting
AND
Before police revealed the gun was legally purchased by the 6-year-old's mother, Andrew Block, an associate professor at the University of Virginia Law School, told CNN there was a scenario where the parents could be held criminally liable if the weapon belonged to them and they did not keep it properly locked up. But in Virginia, that's only a Class 1 misdemeanor, Block said.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:53 am I feel sorry for the idiocy of the parent who said the gun was "secure." Obviously it was not. Dang. The stupid burns. This stupid precipitates from the people who think that just saying something means everyone should accept it as true, despite the obvious and measurable facts. I'm pretty sure we can thank the likes of Fox News and those kind of tabloid media for this burning stupid.

CDFingers
Sure, the gun was secure. Just like TOS “won” the election. When all else fails, insist on your version of reality to the bitter end.
Ride the Titanic!
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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We still don't know exactly how the gun was or was not 'secured,' do we?

I'm very curious about this, having recently shopped for gun lock boxes and purchased two of them-- reading the negative reviews was really informative. For example, some-- with keys that are bilaterally symmetrical-- can be opened, literally, with a paper clip. There are six-year-olds who could do this. A six-year-old might also be able to remember the combination of one of those stupid little zinc locks, if he saw mum or dud open the safe. Some fingerprint sensors do not work well-- I've seen reviews that said, "I quickly discovered that any finger would open the safe, whether it had been programmed or not." Most can be pried open with screwdrivers, though some would require more strength than a young child would have.

My impression is that most lock boxes are pretty bad. The larger one I got seems pretty decent, though the fingerprint sensor is wonky-- I sometimes I have to use the combination. I'm going to test it with the 'wrong' finger. The smaller safe, though it has a cylindrical key, is really not great. I think it has a reasonable chance of deterring a smash-and-grab thief, or it would be fine for the trunk of a car with an alarm (if I can find a decent anchor point for the cable) if I am nearby.
OTOH, "secured" could mean "in a locked briefcase" or the trunk of a car or something, which would be a bit different. It's negligent either way, but it would be useful to know how negligent-- and if the answer turns out to be, "the kid broke into a lockbox," I'd like to know how the security was defeated.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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SunRiseWest wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:20 pm We still don't know exactly how the gun was or was not 'secured,' do we?

I'm very curious about this, having recently shopped for gun lock boxes and purchased two of them-- reading the negative reviews was really informative. For example, some-- with keys that are bilaterally symmetrical-- can be opened, literally, with a paper clip. There are six-year-olds who could do this. A six-year-old might also be able to remember the combination of one of those stupid little zinc locks, if he saw mum or dud open the safe. Some fingerprint sensors do not work well-- I've seen reviews that said, "I quickly discovered that any finger would open the safe, whether it had been programmed or not." Most can be pried open with screwdrivers, though some would require more strength than a young child would have.

My impression is that most lock boxes are pretty bad. The larger one I got seems pretty decent, though the fingerprint sensor is wonky-- I sometimes I have to use the combination. I'm going to test it with the 'wrong' finger. The smaller safe, though it has a cylindrical key, is really not great. I think it has a reasonable chance of deterring a smash-and-grab thief, or it would be fine for the trunk of a car with an alarm (if I can find a decent anchor point for the cable) if I am nearby.
OTOH, "secured" could mean "in a locked briefcase" or the trunk of a car or something, which would be a bit different. It's negligent either way, but it would be useful to know how negligent-- and if the answer turns out to be, "the kid broke into a lockbox," I'd like to know how the security was defeated.
In mother's closet on a shelf. Had a trigger lock..No idea how the kid opened it.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/22/us/newpo ... index.html

BTW-my safe is with a key. I don't like electronic ones...if the battery dies, much harder to open. Some you have to call the company. If my new safe is electronic keypad, it must have a key backup.

But most thieves are looking for ease..they encounter a safe, chances are, they'll look elsewhere.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Everyone knows women keep their keys in their purses, even six year olds. So a trigger lock just slowed the kid down for seven minutes while she was in the bathroom. He also should not have known it was on the closet shelf. Pity the fine in VA is only $500 for this.

For the record, my safe is old school tumbler combo, and I'm the only one who knows the combo. My son, over 40 years old, knows where I keep it so he can get my guns when I die, but I did not tell him where it was kept until he was 21.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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